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Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

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Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#621
post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Amazon retail doesn’t develop a service internally and turn it over to AWS so they can sell it to customers. AWS treats Amazon Retail as just another customer that sometimes gets access to services before they are made publicly available. They talk about this all of the time at reinvent.

I mean Amazon as a whole, not specifically the retail arm. Wasn't the point that every internal service should be able to be productised? This was much later than when AWS was started.

So I guess I should disclose this now. I work as an implementation consultant (not my official title but it’s more descriptive - I actually do hands on keyboard coding) at AWS. But I’m just as far removed from the going ons between AWS and Amazon retail as anyone on the outside. So I’m definitely not trying to do the “appeal to authority”.

The mandate was in 2001. AWS first launched in 2006. From reading the letter, it wasn’t about being able to make services productizable. It was more so teams could work independently and choose whichever underlying technology they wanted. It also prevents the issue the original poster was having. It’s much easier to make changes to a small API than a monolith.

It takes a lot to go from internal API to product even on a small scale. Werner Vogels said at the last Reinvent that S3 is made you of hundred or more separate internal services exposed internally via an API. My last company we also had a mandate to be “API first”. Not because we were trying to be like Amazon with less than 75 people, but we actually sold access to our APIs to our customers - large business that used them as the backend for their websites and mobile apps. We also used the APIs internally for our websites and large ETL jobs where sour clients would send us files for bulk changes.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any actual evidence of this, though? Whenever software engineer salary comes up on HN, there are always one or two people who come out of the woodwork to share this oh-so-secret information. "Despite the pay bands that all big companies have and some even publish, there are secret squirrel individual contributor software engineers who make $600K and get million dollar bonuses! Trust us, it happens, guarantee…

You think the people inventing the critical algorithms behind amazon s3 and aws in general are line of business employees making what everyone else in their band makes? A trillion dollar corporation is going to let that guy walk out the door to save instead of chipping him an extra million? This isn't about people who get their work done fast and execute on projects well.

Just because something would make sense to be true doesn’t mean it is, so I’m not sure if that counts as a valid argument

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#623
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So at least what I did is stop trying to put so much of an expectation on my job to fulfill me. I took responsibility to find and do things at and especially outside of my day job that did fulfill me. I'm not debating you but I just want to point out that your advice depends on the personality. It may even work for most workers but for some us, we cannot mentally "compartmentalize" the day job as the isolated 9-to-5…

With all due respect, the fact that you haven't found that "dream job" yet kind of proves the commenter's point. I'd love to work a "dream job" myself, it just doesn't exist. The whole purpose of a job is to make a company money, and money just never really motivated me other than in the freedom it buys me to not have to sell my time. Everything I enjoy doesn't make money, and if I wanted to "monetize" any of my hobb…

Well they’d have to pay people to do it well haha

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#624
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. There's no bonuses at Amazon (at PE/SDE levels at least), and there are compensation bands for each level. A top-ranked SDE3 that delivered DynamoDB should have similar compensation as a top-ranked SDE3 working on internal tools.

I prefer not to discuss compensation - so will answer this indirectly. Few SDE3s definitely make principal salaries, Principals make millions and so on. I remember there was an ex amazon guy putting up the top end numbers on twitter which seemed more along these lines. It sadly comes down to your managers and VP decisions. FWIW it is kind of a future investment IMO. You come out with a ton of knowledge and contacts t…

I'm contrary on this. I see salary level as a negative, not a positive. I want to be paid comparably to my peers.

I don't think I'm unique. I think just about all workers want to be paid comparably to their peers. They get upset if they discover others doing the same stuff with the same levels of skill and experience are making more than they are. (And here I mean a lot more, not just "been with the company longer and got regular raises".)

Value is relative. Something is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it, and that includes the workers labor. And focusing on pay can be misleading. I saw an IT salary comparison a while back. An IT staffer in San Diego might make more than double what a staffer doing the same job in Wheeling, WV made. The reason was simple. It cost far more to live in San Diego. Employers there had to pay far higher salaries so their people could afford to live there. And the chap in WV might actually being doing better, relative to peers in San Diego, because even at half the salary, his living expenses were a lot lower, and more of what he made was disposable income, instead of just covering his rent.

If the salary you make is your main focus, I think you are doing it wrong. Money is a means to an end. Having money lets you buy things you need. Having more money lets you also buy things you want. If all you have is money, you have problems. You can't eat it, wear it, or live in it. All you can do is exchange it for food, clothing, and shelter.

And if your main focus is salary level, you are like the character played by James Garner in a film called The Wheeler Dealers. Garner was a Texas entrepreneur, buying and selling, being followed around by a breathless female financial analyst trying to understand what he was doing. He stated it very clearly. "It's a game. Money is how you keep score." If that's the game you like to play, you probably shouldn't be in IT.

I had an interchange a while back with a chap elsewhere who was folding a startup that had not proved out. That's the normal outcome for a startup. Most fail. Too many people think "Oh, I'll go work for a startup! I'll put in 90 hour weeks for shit pay. But the startup will succeed and IPO and I'll get filthy rich" No, you won't. Even in a startup that succeeds and IPOs, only the founders are likely to get rich.

If you found a startup, the goal shouldn't be getting rich. You should be doing something you love to do, and will continue to do regardless of whether your startup succeeds and you IPO. If the startup succeeds, you may get filthy rich, but that will be a side effect, and not the point of the exercise. The chap I was talking to agreed completely with my notions.

The OP's complaint wasn't money, it was inability to make a meaningful contribution. The company was too big, with too many little cubbyholes where folks could get tucked away and not have an opportunity to contribute. His challenge was to find another place in the company where he would have an opportunity to make a contribution, or to find another company to work for that would provide the opportunity. If I were him, I might even accept a starting salary that was lower than my current one, simply because I could do stuff that made a contribution, and I saw potential for growth and making more money later.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#625
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that if those are your options, start being “based” on the internet instead of wherever you consider yourself “based” now, because good programmers on the internet are paid €10k+ per month. If you have a lot of experience and a good network, you can easily double that (€20k/mo, €125/hr) as well. Triple that is not out of the question, either. High end specialty researchers are billed at >=$400/hr by large…

US employers are very reluctant to hire remote devs from Europe imo. As soon as they hear you are from Europe the dialog is over.

So don’t mention where you are? As long as you don’t have a window in frame, work the same timezone hours, and have decent internet, I think you can sidestep this issue.

That said, I don’t think this is as big a blocker as you seem to think. It’s a different issue in the sales process.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#626
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a compilation of people reacting in real time to the next game I'm working on. Nothing I could ever build at a FAANG company compares to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtxaEDp3AFI

That’s not gameplay. Actually playing the game will look completely different. You might as well just be making an animated film.

???

What are you talking about. That's people reacting to the announcement trailer for the game. The point being that nothing I could ever produce at Facebook or Amazon would ever produce that sort of genuine reaction from people.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#627
post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever told you there's no bonuses at Amazon is not a top employee. So that's how Amazon works - people can't even get a straight answer from management as to the existence of a bonus structure (let alone how it works)? They need to whisper it to each other offer coffee, or... go on Hacker News to find out what the actual deal is?

I mean just think about it. You write some critical piece of Amazon S3, generates massive value for the company. Amazon knows they cant lose you, how are they not paying you a ton of money? Individual employees can get into situations where they have massive bargaining power over large corporations. Your average or even regular top performer is not getting this, but people definitely are. The bonus structure works li…

I've seen bonuses like this at Amazon. You forgot the detail where some clown who has been taking credit with no technical understanding of the project gets the bonus while the people who delivered the actual value are ignored.

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any actual evidence of this, though? Whenever software engineer salary comes up on HN, there are always one or two people who come out of the woodwork to share this oh-so-secret information. "Despite the pay bands that all big companies have and some even publish, there are secret squirrel individual contributor software engineers who make $600K and get million dollar bonuses! Trust us, it happens, guarantee…

You think the people inventing the critical algorithms behind amazon s3 and aws in general are line of business employees making what everyone else in their band makes? A trillion dollar corporation is going to let that guy walk out the door to save instead of chipping him an extra million? This isn't about people who get their work done fast and execute on projects well.

Getting special bonuses is more about being part of an inner circle than being a "top performer" or inventing critical algorithms for s3. Yes, the people truly behind a lot of the important stuff are standard engineers making within band compensation (possibly out of band only due to stock appreciation).

Re: Ask HN: Is all of FAANG like this?

#629

Given the description I assume you worked at Amazon. I worked there too, and I quit for Google. They are VERY different companies. Google's tooling is unparalleled and maintained by staffed teams, its work force is motivated. It's hard to move the needle - in a large company full of smart people all the easy stuff was done ten years ago, and compliance concerns are everywhere. But none of that is due to lack of tools…

Not in Amazon myself but rumor has it that Amazon is actually the inverse of what OP describes - more at the verge of sweatshop rather than an easy-boring-sail downwind.

Eventually the accumulated sweatshop tech debt and incompetent management with no technical understanding result in teams not being able to accomplish anything, and situations like the one OP and his team are stuck in.
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