Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods • Hacker News Board

Re: Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods

#241

Post by tkgally » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 8:23 AM UTC

squidpie wrote: post #234

tkgally wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good reference. In adding to zoning, there are other factors that contribute to the large number of viable tiny businesses here in Japan. One is that small shops aren't bound by as strict accessibility and fire regulations as in some other countries. A restaurant or bar, for example, that seats no more than a dozen customers and is staffed by just one or two people will often have a correspondingly tiny rest…

Obviously the specific implementation of accessibility within private home-front businesses is a complicated issue. However, I find your suggested solution of excluding disabled people from accessing small local shops rather asinine, especially considering how particularly beneficial such shops would be. I am not here to debate or offer specific solutions, but I want to encourage able bodied folks to take the followi…

> I find your suggested solution of excluding disabled people from accessing small local shops rather asinine

I wasn't suggesting a solution. I was describing the situation in Japan and offering two explanations for why that situation might be as it is.

Re: Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods

#242

Post by modo_mario » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 8:24 AM UTC

Matt3o12_ wrote: post #223

qwerty456127 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of separating business and living into distant zones and forbidding trading within residential areas has always infuriated me with its absurdity. Who could possibly come up with it? It only makes sense when it's about noisy and air-polluting businesses, grocery/whatever stores and offices are absolutely great to be dispersed within residential areas!

> It only makes sense when it's about noisy and air-polluting businesses, grocery/whatever stores and offices are absolutely great to be dispersed within residential areas! Grocery stores (even small ones) can be very noisy, especially with extended business hours these days. I used to live In an apartment above a grocery story with a small parking lot for a long time. This was also in a mixed zone area (mostly resid…

Parking lot, employees, carts. Sounds like a small supermarket you're describing there

My nearby grocery store closed recently. Same with the baker and another grocery store before it. It was small was tended to by the owner and his wife and had one parking spot that wasn't just the regular street ones.

Re: Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods

#243

Post by b112 » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 8:26 AM UTC

gotoeleven wrote: post #142

pj_mukh wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Karen’s on the central planning committee” cries in San Francisco So apt.

It truly is the golden era of officious busybodies.

Outside of the parent's offensive sexist, and racist 'Karen' statement...

I really don't think people have perspective these days. You think this is the era of officious busybodies?! Seriously?

It's just that these days, things aren't covered up. Or, are seen more due to the Internet.

For example, you think cops are MORE violent now? MORE racist? HELL NO! No, no, no!

They're MUCH better than they were. Much. All of that needs to be stopped, of course, there's zero call for it. However in the past, you wouldn't even hear of it. A black man would be beaten to death, and it wouldn't even make the news!

Go find an older black gentleman from rural Alabama from the 50s, and ask him some questions. Compare that, and police treatment, to now.

So with respect to 'busybodies', I think you need to think back to small town American (and Canada, where I'm from), a mere 50 years ago. Canada is pretty much atheist now, and the US certainly is, compared to back then.

And along with all that religious baggage, came the 'holier than thou' lot. Said lot would always work to dominate committees, town councils, you name it. Religious groups would constantly rail on TV series, movies, even newspaper comics like the 'Far Side' would get hate mail, over crazy silly supposed slights.

The media was controlled, out of fear of retribution.

Oh no, nothing you complain about now even remotely compares to that. And while I say "You literally, clearly, have no idea.".. don't feel bad. Feel lucky you don't.

Re: Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods

#244

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 8:28 AM UTC

corty wrote: post #204

dodobirdlord wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~4-5 stories is totally sufficient to be "dense" compared to most of the US. Cities in the US sprawl absurdly flat. Consider that Paris is one of the densest cities in the world, and famously has almost no tall buildings.

Paris also has famously tiny, cramped and frankly unlivable appartments. Has had for ages. The three musketeers even contained references to it... If Paris is a model for the world, I don't want this world.

[deleted]

Re: Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods

#245

Post by eecc » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 8:32 AM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #146

gotoeleven wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It truly is the golden era of officious busybodies.

Tangentially related, but a colleague just got their replacement of kitchen cabinets shut down by the local government for not having a permit. It’s baffling to me that the government requires that you get permission to do significant modification to the inside of your own home, especially for non structural work.

Where did that happen?

Re: Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods

#246

Post by b112 » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 8:35 AM UTC

freeone3000 wrote: post #217

jhatemyjob wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people actually like cars/driving, some people dont want random people walking in front of their house, and not everyone wants their city to turn into NYC Sometimes it feels like the people on this site have only lived in SFBA/LA/NYC and nowhere else in the United States. Cars/suburbia work pretty well in most places

Suburbia straight doesn't work. Requiring a car for transit means kids have to continually be chauffeured by adults to anywhere meaningful. Lack of local business means there's limited economic potential for the city - it's all in one tax district and redistributed around. Sprawl increases the cost of providing services like fire and police. You're taking on some significant burdens in exchange for not having your ne…

Canadian cities have suburbia, and public transit. Many have buses on main streets, which are typically a 2 or 3 block walk from side streets.

Suburbia doesn't mean "have to have a car", it is just many like having cars.

This sort of speaks to the prior poster, stating that many here are from big cities. Suburbia isn't low-density. It's only low-density compared to 'downtown'.

Try living in actual, real rural areas. Where I live, houses are a mile apart! Yet bizarrely, we have fire stations, police, high speed gigabit internet, and more.

And it isn't super expensive either.

Re: Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods

#247

Post by eecc » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 8:35 AM UTC

novok wrote: post #103

claudeganon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the real estate is being used as a value store for people moving money from overseas, engaging in money laundering, or as a hedge against other bets. Once exchange value is given priority over use value in markets for things like housing, you run into all kinds of nonsensical arrangements and deleterious social consequences.

And that is why you need tax penalties such as long term unoccupied property taxes and non-resident investor taxes to counter incentivize such behavior.

Well, in NL you were allowed to squat a property if it was vacant for more that a certain amount of time. Then the local Liberals (Mark Rutte) outlawed squatting and it’s basically like the parent comment described.

Re: Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods

#248

Post by _0o6v » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 8:38 AM UTC

This sounds great in a utopia where everybody is quiet and considerate, delivery drivers don't throw boxes and crates around, people don't get drunk and smash bottles in the street or have arguments.

Having lived next to and above commercial properties I can say it doesn't improve quality of life, it drastically impacts mental health, stress, and sleep. There's a reason that we have commercial districts and residential districts.

Re: Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods

#249

Post by eecc » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 8:39 AM UTC

moltar wrote: post #153

kilroy_jones wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you're in America, most areas are not dense enough to accommodate mixed use zoning unless they start building up. The other half is getting priced out like your grandma.

Density is a function of zoning laws. They should just fix the zoning and make sure it has adequate density to support business. I think citizens can vote with their dollar where they want to live. I hate suburbia, but I’m also not into super central downtown living. I want something in between. I’m ok with a townhouse and no backyard, as long as there’s a park nearby. I’m up for living with neighbours in a dense are…

You’re talking about the average European small town...

Re: Put tiny businesses back into residential neighborhoods

#250

Post by modo_mario » Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 8:40 AM UTC

jhatemyjob wrote: post #211

madamelic wrote: post #2

Mixed use zoning is just about the best case situation for everyone. - Less reliance on cars, which results in less parking, which results in less traffic... it becomes self-perpetuating. - Better walkability - Knowing your corner store clerk or at least having a rapport with them - Healthier citizens, due to them walking everywhere (Go to NYC and see how few overweight people you see... not many unless they're touri…

Some people actually like cars/driving, some people dont want random people walking in front of their house, and not everyone wants their city to turn into NYC Sometimes it feels like the people on this site have only lived in SFBA/LA/NYC and nowhere else in the United States. Cars/suburbia work pretty well in most places

>Some people actually like cars/driving

I live in a small town but in a very spread out relatively densely populated country. Still with the closing of the old bakery and little grocery store due to the people who ran it retiring I have to go to a nearby city or supermarkets on the outskirts for stuff.

I'm not saying this out of spite or annoyance because of that. It's not that far. Hell i'm even moving soon. But I do see it for what it was. A good thing to have around. It made for local economic activity, it had locals meeting up and having talks there, not driving all the way out if they were missing something minor and very local events were advertised there. There's no reason, 0, nada to do spatial planning to purposefully have people driving more and longer. It's not good for the environment, it's not good for the people, economically, what have you. If you love driving you can do so without a reason. And no by advocating for having spatial planning that allows for local small stores people aren't pushing for everyone to live in a big city either.