I wouldn't invest in ARM if they can't sell to Chinese companies
Why not?
Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t
101–110 of 184 posts
Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
AMD holds roughly 30 percent share of the CPU* and graphics card/GPU markets, that's far from insignificant and certainly not a "tiny fraction" or a "couple cards." * https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2019/09/24/am... https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-and-nvidia-geforce-discrete-...
I think they also totally own the console space, don't they? The next-gen consoles from both Sony and Microsoft are based on custom AMD cpu/gpu combos.
yes, I'd forgot about that. Current gen and next gen are both AMD silicon.
Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
AMD holds roughly 30 percent share of the CPU* and graphics card/GPU markets, that's far from insignificant and certainly not a "tiny fraction" or a "couple cards." * https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2019/09/24/am... https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-and-nvidia-geforce-discrete-...
I think they also totally own the console space, don't they? The next-gen consoles from both Sony and Microsoft are based on custom AMD cpu/gpu combos.
Nintendo switch uses NVIDIA, but yes AMD is the provider for Microsoft and Sony.
Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t
#104Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t
#105I would never want to buy ARM if I were Apple. Here's why. Apple can design AND manufacture chips based on ARM architecture, essentially without any interference from ARM the company. Just pay a (relatively small) license fee and you're all set. The article says it well: > Arm’s licensing operation would fit poorly with Apple’s hardware-focused business model. > There may also be regulatory concerns about Apple ownin…
But without buying ARM they might be able to replace ARM with their completely own thing.
But due to regulations around monopolies they likely will have problems if they end up with this after buying ARM.
It also isn't as profitable as Apple, so Apple stack holders might not like it. Even more if Risc-V takes over things might not be that good for ARM so it's another liability for Apple with like not that much benefits.
Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t
#106I would never want to buy ARM if I were Apple. Here's why. Apple can design AND manufacture chips based on ARM architecture, essentially without any interference from ARM the company. Just pay a (relatively small) license fee and you're all set. The article says it well: > Arm’s licensing operation would fit poorly with Apple’s hardware-focused business model. > There may also be regulatory concerns about Apple ownin…
True, but losing influence on the core component you've pivoted your whole company around, would also be pretty disastrous. Or in memespeak: scenes when nVidia controls Apple's CPU roadmap.
They likely have existing binding contracts with ARM, due to which they don't have to worry about that.
Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t
#107Interesting article. I wonder what is really happening. Looking at moves by Chinese vendors and others, I'm going to hypothesize that ARM said to itself: "We can't compete with 'free' and RISC-V is 'good enough' that its going to wipe out the commodity micro-contoller licensing stream that is over 50% of our revenue. That means we won't have the resources to invest in designing higher end features in the high margin…
I understand the attractions of RISC-V and hope it does prosper but I'm not sure that it's 'free' to the extent that seems to be assumed. Some implementations are open source but others are not and someone has to do the work (and in most cases get paid for it). Chinese firms may rush to RISC-V but given the geopolitics (e.g. Huawei) I can easily see barriers being put up in the US and elsewhere to cheap chinese RISC-…
A couple of things I've noted:
Western Digital adopts RISC-V [1]
Microchip's new push [2]
Analysts covering the microprocessor marking making some pretty big projections [3]
[1] https://riscv.org/2017/11/ee-times-article-risc-v-spins-driv...
[2] http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/00002911A.pd...
[3] Semico Research estimated that there will be 62.4 billion RISC-V cores shipping in 2025. It’s not just for microcontrollers, Asanovic said. There is demand for every performance level. -- https://venturebeat.com/2019/12/11/risc-v-grows-globally-as-...
Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
My impression (based on a talk with both Simon Seegars - ARM CEO - and Jeff Williams - Apple COO - onstage) is that the relationship is pretty close. You'd expect that ARM would be pretty responsive to the needs of one of its highest profile customers especially given the history and there is no reason why that would change with any sale.
That's the current story - where ARM is independent. If a competitor buys it and decide to not invest as much in ARM or keep things for themselves that's where this discussion plays off. I was saying it won't matter much for Apple but on the other hand Apple buying them would be a much worse outcome for the industry as a whole.
I'm reasomably sure that Apple does care about the ISA that will soon power 100% (to a reasonable approximation) of its products. My (less than fully clear) point was that there is a strong relationship there and that it's two way.
Sure, Apple has escape routes if things go wrong but it's very very unlikely they will be needed.
Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t
#109I would never want to buy ARM if I were Apple. Here's why. Apple can design AND manufacture chips based on ARM architecture, essentially without any interference from ARM the company. Just pay a (relatively small) license fee and you're all set. The article says it well: > Arm’s licensing operation would fit poorly with Apple’s hardware-focused business model. > There may also be regulatory concerns about Apple ownin…
Is there a risk NVIDIA could change the licensing terms to ARM's detriment?
Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t
#110Just keep in mind that the major use case for ARM is embedded systems: washing machines, smart refrigerators, car electronics, barbecue thermometers, medical devices, lawn mowers, you get the idea. Mobile phone or computer companies would not be interested in dealing with that part of the business.
True, but x86 also got it's start in (relatively) low-end systems (PCs) and eventually overtook high-end CPUs from the bottom. ARM looks to be in a position to do that.
Intel is already losing desktop market to ARM with Apple's Mac transition from Intel to "Apple Silicon" (ARM).
Cheap RISC-V CPUs seem to have a much brighter future than ARM for consumer appliances like washing machines than have slim profit margins and don't need compatibility with other devices.