Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t • Hacker News Board

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#61

Post by saxonww » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

humps wrote: post #6

AWildC182 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only really holds water at a cursory glance though... Nvidia owns ALL of video and then some, AMD only owns a (growing) tiny fraction of CPU and happens to have a couple cards. It's not just about markets but market share.

AMD holds roughly 30 percent share of the CPU* and graphics card/GPU markets, that's far from insignificant and certainly not a "tiny fraction" or a "couple cards." * https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2019/09/24/am... https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-and-nvidia-geforce-discrete-...

I think they also totally own the console space, don't they? The next-gen consoles from both Sony and Microsoft are based on custom AMD cpu/gpu combos.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#62

Post by nabla9 » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

sys_64738 wrote: post #56

ARM Holdings is the IP licenses it sells is it not? I don't think ARM Holdings does HW design, or do they?

They do. ARM Holdings is ARM Ltd.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#63

Post by toyg » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #57

I would never want to buy ARM if I were Apple. Here's why. Apple can design AND manufacture chips based on ARM architecture, essentially without any interference from ARM the company. Just pay a (relatively small) license fee and you're all set. The article says it well: > Arm’s licensing operation would fit poorly with Apple’s hardware-focused business model. > There may also be regulatory concerns about Apple ownin…

True, but losing influence on the core component you've pivoted your whole company around, would also be pretty disastrous.

Or in memespeak: scenes when nVidia controls Apple's CPU roadmap.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#64

Post by blinkingled » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 7:57 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #63

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #57

I would never want to buy ARM if I were Apple. Here's why. Apple can design AND manufacture chips based on ARM architecture, essentially without any interference from ARM the company. Just pay a (relatively small) license fee and you're all set. The article says it well: > Arm’s licensing operation would fit poorly with Apple’s hardware-focused business model. > There may also be regulatory concerns about Apple ownin…

True, but losing influence on the core component you've pivoted your whole company around, would also be pretty disastrous. Or in memespeak: scenes when nVidia controls Apple's CPU roadmap.

Nothing stops Apple from giving no craps about ARM CPU roadmaps though. They could just license what they need and build a completely custom everything on top without needing it to be a standard implementation in anyway. So long as whoever is buying ARM is legally mandated to provide licenses - Apple doesn't have to rely on them actually pushing out new CPUs/modules/features.

Historically I think they have just licensed the ISA and built their own thing on top. Maybe they needed the Big.Little stuff in the past but for the future they seem to be confident enough not to need anything from ARM or do it themselves.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#65

Post by toyg » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 7:58 PM UTC

WhatTheFrick wrote: post #59

What do you guys think could be the implications for employees who may or may not be finding out about this sale through HN rather than internally?

It's been rumored for a week that SoftBank is pondering a sale, but the fact that SB is hurting for cash has been common knowledge for a while now.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#66

Post by nicoburns » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 7:58 PM UTC

chvid wrote: post #37

chvid wrote: post #13

How relevant is ARM in the long run if Apple is pursuing its own design / CPU architecture ("Apple Silicon") and the Chinese lead by Huawei are forced by US sanctions also to create their own design / architecture?

Or let me ask in different way: why use ARM if you control and build the whole stack from electronics to operating system to the software running on it? The core instruction set is from the 80es. Surely you can come up with some better today were you to design it from scratch?

> why use ARM if you control and build the whole stack from electronics to operating system to the software running on it?

Why not use ARM if the alternative is to build an entire software stack from scratch. ARMs licensing fees are very reasonable, and then you get most of the free software ecosystem for free.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#67

Post by dividedbyzero » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 8:00 PM UTC

sitkack wrote: post #14

AWildC182 wrote: post #8

I wonder if softbank sees the writing on the wall here. Yea they want cash but ARM is rapidly coming under fire from the open source RISC-V architecture. ARM's licencing model in particular is steering people away from their offerings in new designs and I think they're pretty much at peak value right now with Apple's adoption of their architecture. I know there aren't tons of news articles about new high performance…

I am a huge RISC-V fan, like Cathy Bates level, but there is so much that ARM can do over the next 5,10,15 years but it looks like they are incapable of the required transformations. Everything that is good about RISC-V is already at ARM's disposal. Currently it looks like SiFive was borne out of a solution for the organizational issues that plague innovator's dilemma companies. I am envious of SiFive's position righ…

What is an IR?

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#68

Post by McP » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 8:04 PM UTC

WhatTheFrick wrote: post #59

What do you guys think could be the implications for employees who may or may not be finding out about this sale through HN rather than internally?

I'm sure they'll be incentivized to do their best to push the sale price up ;)

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#69

Post by adventured » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 8:04 PM UTC

sitkack wrote: post #17

starfallg wrote: post #2

The antitrust implications of an ARM sale to any one of the tech giant is massive and may drag on for a while. It would be probably be quicker if Softbank floats ARM through an IPO.

There has been no meaningful antitrust action in over a decade. I wouldn't bank on it.

The parent is referring to the blocking of an acquisition. There have been many examples of that type of action on the basis of competition concerns. The Justice Dept and FTC routinely try to block acquisitions where there are competition concerns. They don't always win, as in the case of AT&T / Time Warner (or in the case of AT&T / T-Mobile, they did successfully prevent that). Some other examples: Anthem & Cigna, Sabre & Farelogix, Edgewell & Harry's, Office Depot & Staples, Sysco & US Foods.

Re: Report: ARM is for sale and Nvidia’s interested, Apple isn’t

#70

Post by Zenst » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 8:05 PM UTC

Apple license the instruction set and make their own designs, so the interest in all that overhead business, let alone the political fallout (too much power in one company and fuels the Apple TAX headline mantra that will just roll and roll) - Apple don't want that hassel.

But many reasons Apple buying ARM is not a good fit for Apple.

Nvidia may well be good fit and a better fit than Apple by far, though would it be best if ARM is owned by some company or publicly listed?

If I was Softbank, I'd go for IPO route as I do feel out of all the IPOs, this is a mature tech firm. That makes this one that will be popular on many levels, let alone the number of Geeks who will want an ARM share certificate upon their wall.