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Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

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Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#11

Post by pantalaimon »

maze-le wrote: post #5

He is definitely one of the most interesting people to listen to when it comes to AI, Intelligence and Philosophy. I've seen him in Leipzig on CCC events in the past, here are some of his other talks: * Computational Meta-Intelligence (32C3): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRdJCFEqFTU * Machine Dreams (33C3): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5nJ5l6dl2s * The Ghost in the Machine (35C3): https://www.youtube.com/watch…

I'm happy to get my annual Joscha Bach fix seeing that CCC is probably cancelled this year.

His talks are always a firehose of fresh ideas and new combinations of known concepts.

All of his previous talks can be found at

https://media.ccc.de/search?p=Joscha

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#12

Post by throwaway69123 »

jagrsw wrote: post #10

I've seen the interview in June, and was following Joscha's twitter feed since. Although a lot of good stuff, some of his views are a bit perplexing: * If his offspring would turn homosexual, he'd be sad about them being "evolutionary dead-end" (tho, he'd still support them in any way possible) - cannot find the tweet now, he probably deleted it * He expresses a dim view of US' future (its institutions) esp. in the l…

Why do you find him expressing sadness about him not being able to pass on his genetics, perplexing? Its a primal evolutionary imperative. While possible the rate of child having is very low in same sex relationships in comparrison to the hetro relationships is higher.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#13

Post by yetihehe »

jmiskovic wrote: post #7

I was quite intrigued by semi-proposal of building a meta social network (it starts around 1:37:45). He proposes a service where anyone can start a social network using any features of existing ones (Facebook feed, Twitter conversation, Reddit threads...), with each network cultivating its own rules and reward function (criteria for what content is reshared or upvoted). On one hand it's over-ambitious and doomed to f…

> with each network cultivating its own rules and reward function (criteria for what content is reshared or upvoted).

Yeah, that sounds like trying to evolve even more addicting social networks. Those networks which are more rewarding will have more users, regardless if they are good or bad in long term.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#14

Post by honzzz »

jagrsw wrote: post #10

I've seen the interview in June, and was following Joscha's twitter feed since. Although a lot of good stuff, some of his views are a bit perplexing: * If his offspring would turn homosexual, he'd be sad about them being "evolutionary dead-end" (tho, he'd still support them in any way possible) - cannot find the tweet now, he probably deleted it * He expresses a dim view of US' future (its institutions) esp. in the l…

What is perplexing about it? Genuine curiosity - where I live those views would probably be considered mundane mainstream.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#15

Post by jagrsw »

throwaway69123 wrote: post #12
jagrsw wrote: post #10

I've seen the interview in June, and was following Joscha's twitter feed since. Although a lot of good stuff, some of his views are a bit perplexing: * If his offspring would turn homosexual, he'd be sad about them being "evolutionary dead-end" (tho, he'd still support them in any way possible) - cannot find the tweet now, he probably deleted it * He expresses a dim view of US' future (its institutions) esp. in the l…

Why do you find him expressing sadness about him not being able to pass on his genetics, perplexing? Its a primal evolutionary imperative. While possible the rate of child having is very low in same sex relationships in comparrison to the hetro relationships is higher.

Mostly because he the object which creates the ideas and interacting with us is not his genes/body/brain but on the most abstract level it's his neural system, and the imperative you're talking about is imposed by his genes on his neural system (via brain wiring + hormones).

Since Joscha says that being adult means taking control of your emotions (I guess, to a point), so they serve your goals, and you're not at their whim, I wonder why he succumbs so easily to this specific emotion. Since having offspring has nothing to do with goals of his neural system (say... discovering the nature, advancing knowledge, exchanging ideas).

Goals of your genes != goals of your neural system (brain), and for the purpose of this conversation you are for me the latter.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#16

Post by jagrsw »

honzzz wrote: post #14
jagrsw wrote: post #10

I've seen the interview in June, and was following Joscha's twitter feed since. Although a lot of good stuff, some of his views are a bit perplexing: * If his offspring would turn homosexual, he'd be sad about them being "evolutionary dead-end" (tho, he'd still support them in any way possible) - cannot find the tweet now, he probably deleted it * He expresses a dim view of US' future (its institutions) esp. in the l…

What is perplexing about it? Genuine curiosity - where I live those views would probably be considered mundane mainstream.

I replied on this in another subthread, a minute ago or so.

But as for the 'mainstream', Joscha exactly doesn't want to be mainstream - see his TT stream: :)

"In a playground where most people can neither come up with ideas of their own.." and various other tweets and presos related to the harm of conforming to societal norms of thinking.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#17

Post by longtom »

jagrsw wrote: post #10

I've seen the interview in June, and was following Joscha's twitter feed since. Although a lot of good stuff, some of his views are a bit perplexing: * If his offspring would turn homosexual, he'd be sad about them being "evolutionary dead-end" (tho, he'd still support them in any way possible) - cannot find the tweet now, he probably deleted it * He expresses a dim view of US' future (its institutions) esp. in the l…

In one tweet he suggested the rise of social justice was in part fabricated to demolish the political left in light of Occupy Wall Street,[0] and that much of U.S. politics is about hiding who is actually in control. Funnily, he was indirectly funded by Harvey Weinstein.[1] Overall I think, he is extremely courageous and has perfected the virtue of telling the truth, like telling entire established buildings of philosophy that they are full of it. In my opinion, we need more of guys like him who simply tell the truth instead of chasing the latest political applause light.

[0] http://archive.is/wip/kvjGp

[1] https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=14814

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#18

Post by dan00 »

jagrsw wrote: post #15
throwaway69123 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you find him expressing sadness about him not being able to pass on his genetics, perplexing? Its a primal evolutionary imperative. While possible the rate of child having is very low in same sex relationships in comparrison to the hetro relationships is higher.

Mostly because he the object which creates the ideas and interacting with us is not his genes/body/brain but on the most abstract level it's his neural system, and the imperative you're talking about is imposed by his genes on his neural system (via brain wiring + hormones). Since Joscha says that being adult means taking control of your emotions (I guess, to a point), so they serve your goals, and you're not at thei…

I'm pretty sure that's not what Joscha meant by taking control of your emotions. His point was certainly more in the direction of not unnecessarily suffering or creating harm by following your emotions.

Following your emotions regarding kids, helping them to raise and become good people, feeling fulfilled doing it, I can't see anything wrong with that. You could even see kids as advancing the knowledge through them. And if you feel that way about your kids, I can also see why someone would be sad not having grand children.

I wouldn't even call this sadness to be mainstream, because I think quite a few people don't allow themselves to feel that way or even condemn themselves. So it's quite honest to be open about such a sadness and shows a good understanding of yourself.

Re: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality [video]

#20

Post by jagrsw »

dan00 wrote: post #18
jagrsw wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly because he the object which creates the ideas and interacting with us is not his genes/body/brain but on the most abstract level it's his neural system, and the imperative you're talking about is imposed by his genes on his neural system (via brain wiring + hormones). Since Joscha says that being adult means taking control of your emotions (I guess, to a point), so they serve your goals, and you're not at thei…

I'm pretty sure that's not what Joscha meant by taking control of your emotions. His point was certainly more in the direction of not unnecessarily suffering or creating harm by following your emotions. Following your emotions regarding kids, helping them to raise and become good people, feeling fulfilled doing it, I can't see anything wrong with that. You could even see kids as advancing the knowledge through them.…

Yup, I agree with 'advancing the knowledge' through your offspring esp. if you consider your neural net capable and well conditioned (but again, who doesn't?:) and genetically+behaviorally inheritable, but he was talking more about grandchildren there (i.e. lack of them), and the effects will be much more limited in the third generation
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