Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition • Hacker News Board

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#291

Post by astura » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:34 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #268

Grimm1 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google "Careers in computers", followed by how to learn then click on any of the resources and get to it. I'm very much not a fan of the kind of "learned helplessness" being displayed in this comment and getting started in something like this is trivial with the amount of resources available right now. It's really not that hard to get started learning and college doesn't really prepare you for these jobs anyway so if…

I'm very much not a fan of the kind of "learned helplessness" Someone coming from a community where there are literally zero engineers or programmers will be very lucky if they even know what words to look for. We can't search for what we don't even know exists. On the flip side people don't know what they do know, in the sense that assumed common knowledge might not actually be common. I was lucky that I had a paren…

This is exactly right - the only community I grew up in had zero engineers, zero computer professionals, and even zero white collar employees.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#292

Post by jiveturkey » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 12:03 AM UTC

in person classes are not worth the cost of full tuition!

education isn't paid for on a value-received basis. it's cost-plus. and shifting online due to covid doesn't reduce costs that much. Yes, there is some lower cost due to facilities being empty, but i'd wager that on balance, the expense ratio is actually higher.

yes, students are not going to get the same value from their tuition dollars.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#293

Post by throwawayway9 » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 12:05 AM UTC

Online classes should be deeply discounted in most cases, and free in the others. It's time to end this college tuition scam once and for all.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#294

Post by Viliam1234 » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 12:05 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #288

znpy wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adapt maybe?

So I take it that you're volunteering to come run all my Audio/Visual stuff for free? I spent 120+ hours dealing with all the Audio-Visual idiocy to deliver a 20 minute talk that took me probably 20 hours to prepare. Yeah, adapt. I have some four letter words for you.

A reasonable approach would be division of work.

Hire a guy who can handle the camera and edit the videos. Have professors plan the lecture, do the talking, and verify that the end product is okay. The guy with the camera can edit videos on multiple subjects, because he doesn't really have to understand the topics.

Of course, if the professors have to learn (each of them separately) how to handle the camera and edit the videos, that is a horrible waste of time. But that's just... lack of strategic thinking on the university's part. It doesn't necessarily have to be that way.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#295

Post by perl4ever » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 12:16 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #257

darth_avocado wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing professors and admins. All professors that I know from undergrad (one of the best unis in the country for tech), recorded all the lectures, sessions and discussions and made all the class material online, including reading material, because they were of the opinion that education should be available in all ways possible. If you didn't feel comfortable concentrating in a class, you could do it later,…

I wish when I went to college I'd had the foresight to simply record the lectures on cassette tapes.

There was somebody who used to run ads in print magazines, when cassette tapes were a thing, touting the world's best lecturers on a variety of topics.

I think this may be them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Courses

https://web.archive.org/web/20090714005930/http://www.nytime...

Looks like they have adjusted, but used to provide videotapes and cassettes.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#296

Post by dragonsngoblins » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 12:41 AM UTC

Melting_Harps wrote: post #287

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online courses have been around for years and they all still suck. If anything this is a boon to colleges in the long run - it has proven, without a doubt, how much worse online learning truly is. It has been around for a decade now - and it still sucks.

> Online courses have been around for years and they all still suck. I think this is ultimately a subjective thing, I don't really think something like CompSci (a subject most here studied) needs to be on a campus based lecture basis, but I can see why someone who needs more 'hand-holding' and wants the campus life experience would say this. I was in an actual Science major, Biology, where your physical presence is n…

I did Comp Sci, didn't live on campus, and certainly didn't need a lot of hand holding (I won the dean's medal), but I definitely think the on campus experience was worth it.

I find in person lectures more engaging and pleasant generally speaking. I definitely don't think the information would have stuck with me as well or as long term with online lectures, and I wouldn't have gotten some connections within academia over the internet.

Not to mention I made friends which I wouldn't have had the course been online.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#297

Post by lanecwagner » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 12:47 AM UTC

In-class classes aren't worth it either... Modern tech facilitates advances in education that haven't been taken advantage of. We need to:

* Gamify the experience * Focus on mastery * Build a community online that replaces the classroom

I'm currently working on a project that aims to do the above, but admittedly we are in the early stages: https://classroom.qvault.io

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#298

Post by ClumsyPilot » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 12:48 AM UTC

hotcrossbunny wrote: post #234

deskamess wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very few professors I know are happy about this whole situation. Exactly this. It is not the same experience being in the same class and teaching. All the energy that could have gone into that is now spent twiddling with gadgets. There is no coordinated 'course production system' in many environments. So teachers have to improvise and they are ending up on different ecosystems. Many of them are now learning to twid…

This is as much about their lack of historic engagement with new platforms than a fundamental difficulty in adapting the teaching process or content. Universities have been very invested in a high cost model. It's time to change. This like many things we are now discovering are ripe for reform and have lacked only the right catalyst to set a painful but necessary progress in motion.

It is about content - it does make sence for each university to produce essentially the same content 100 times

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#299

Post by ClumsyPilot » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 12:55 AM UTC

Melting_Harps wrote: post #287

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online courses have been around for years and they all still suck. If anything this is a boon to colleges in the long run - it has proven, without a doubt, how much worse online learning truly is. It has been around for a decade now - and it still sucks.

> Online courses have been around for years and they all still suck. I think this is ultimately a subjective thing, I don't really think something like CompSci (a subject most here studied) needs to be on a campus based lecture basis, but I can see why someone who needs more 'hand-holding' and wants the campus life experience would say this. I was in an actual Science major, Biology, where your physical presence is n…

> watching youtube videos on distillations and titrations is just about as useful as you will never actually do that in a lab, as its a waste of man-power/labour costs

Thats a perspective of university as a job training program. I would argue that the point of university is more of holistic understanding than inflexible training for skills in need right now. Education in general includes many skills that will not be in industry demand for $$$

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#300

Post by trilinearnz » Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 12:58 AM UTC

I am taking an online MBA course with my local university and there are many benefits to an online format. First, the lectures are recorded and can be rewound for future reference. This is invaluable in the tougher papers. Second, we utilise the chat function in Zoom which allows the whole class to participate in a "full duplex" fashion without one person monopolising the airwaves with a single conversation (I should mention that this technique is only used occasionally when broad input is required).

If the lecturer is facilitating properly (ensuring students are engaged and paying attention, calling upon quieter members), then the class can be as successful as an in-person one.

The only negatives I've seen are: easier to be distracted (no one can really tell you're checking Reddit), the online setting with it's mute/unmute approach sets a higher barrier to entry for participating in discussion.