Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition • Hacker News Board

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#271

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

rdslw wrote: post #226

humanistbot wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except "embracing" is definitely not the right word. Very few professors I know are happy about this whole situation. Universities are begrudgingly accepting the fact that they can't have in-person classes, so they have to turn to online alternatives. Tuition can't be changed because the few costs that are being saved (facilities still need maintenance) are offset by the massive losses in revenue from student housing…

> Tuition can't be changed because (whatever) Nope. What you're saying is "I cant restructure my business becasue I have high costs". Your competitor disrupting your business could not care less.

Online courses have been around for years and they all still suck.

If anything this is a boon to colleges in the long run - it has proven, without a doubt, how much worse online learning truly is. It has been around for a decade now - and it still sucks.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#272

Post by runevault » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:08 PM UTC

albatross wrote: post #250

Domenic_S wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Making money off housing will disproportionately affect students of differing income backgrounds Having trouble parsing this. What do you mean? IMO the problem is that many colleges are not focused on education to begin with. They compete with each other by building the most luxurious facilities, sports programs, and so forth. Then they pay execs crazy salaries while leaving the actual instructors in the dust: "Aud…

Made the following assumptions about rough classes income brackets: - Those at the low end, eligible for financial aid. May be eligible for complete housing/tuition financial aid, but likely to leave school with some amount of debt - Those in the middle, above meaningful thresholds for financial aid. Perhaps family pays for some tuition/housing, but student is saddled with some amount of debt (full cost of tuition/ho…

Sports it heavily depends. Mega successful sports schools (Alabama for example) make money. Also some tiny schools make money by getting paid high 6 or even 7 figures per game to play as a cupcake against the mega schools as a way to pad out a schedule. The schools in between are a much more nuanced conversation and I'm not sure where the dividing lines are.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#273

Post by m23khan » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

As much as I dislike making students paying high tuition fees, as a Canadian, the alternative is worse I feel.

What would end up happening should tuition fees be reduced overnight:

- Universities / Community Colleges would experience a fiscal deficit (or substantial cut to their income). Here in Canada, that means taxpayers' will be on hook.

- Should Educational institutions cut salaries of their staff - they would risk losing their top faculty and support staff.

Just like people rush to support local businesses and local economy, they should also support their local education institutions. After all, they employ a large number of people and have a huge hand in inspiring next generation of workers and provide lots of social programs for local community.

On another note, I often see people discussing merits of University degree / Community College diploma and often point out that Computer Science degree is not worth it. I beg to differ - the Modern World owes quiet a lot to army of University / Community college graduates who have made quantum leap in civilization's advancement possible.

Just over 40 years ago, overwhelming majority of workers didn't have a post-secondary education. But since then, around the World post-secondary education has experienced a boom and we that all corners of the World has experienced substantial gains in their economic output which in turn has led to better health conditions and a better living standard.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#274

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #45

game_the0ry wrote: post #29

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins. What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class ro…

Higher education so far as I can tell now is indistinguishable from a cult. You have to pay homage to various absurd beliefs, contribute money to them, and worship the value of it no matter what the apparent merit of it is, and more than anything it has its heresies which appear to be self-directed development and independent thinking.

[deleted]

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#275

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

jb775 wrote: post #229

The only thing that can really explain this is an elaborate form of price fixing between universities. If one university announced they were slashing "online-only" tuition costs, others would probably be forced to follow suit. It would be interesting to see a single reputable university drop tuition prices for "online-only", and offer automatic-transfer admittance to students already accepted into a similarly reputab…

There's no reason for any university to do this unless they were for-profit (desperate for profits, respected) or failing (not respected).

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#276

Post by xwowsersx » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

Offline classes aren't worth the cost of full tuition either.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#277

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

swiley wrote: post #194

thomasfortes wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are kits to do experiments at home. For high school level, sure. But I can't see a sane way to let students handle acids like I did in chemistry labs during college, and physics labs have equipment that is too complex/expensive/dangerous to send to the students.

You can buy a lot of those chemicals in Walmart and Lows in the US (ex: Walmart usually has fairly pure concentrated sulfuric acid. Lows has most common organic solvents.) The lab equipment is also pretty easy to buy on amazon (I’ve bought some trying to teach myself, although I’d recommend against buying anything from China, It always seems to disappear somewhere around LA.) There’s an entire community of autodidact…

This is a lawsuit waiting to happen and not everyone has the space or want to do this. Completely and utterly unrealistic.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#278

Post by gwright » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

_wldu wrote: post #207

95_JL_OK wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting take that self-directed development is a 'heresy' of academia, even more so, it's considered hokey and invalid. I've noticed that's somewhat the case, there's an attitude that Formal Education is the only education. I didn't even go to a 'bad college' like another commenter suggested would have an attitude like this. I've had students try to tell me off (with great vitriol too) for not being a 'real devel…

Computer scientists are not developers. They are mathematicians. Some of them write software, but many do not.

While I agree with you, the term "computer science" has not had a consistent definition over the years.

I have a degree in "Computer Science" (1987) but it was not a math program. It would not surprise me to learn today that there are many existing "computer science" programs that are not math degrees.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#279

Post by dwild » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

chadash wrote: post #228

There's something about being on a campus that made a big difference for me in college. Some experiences that I had that are hard to replicate remotely include: * Group discussions in seminars. When you are in person, there's a better dynamic to holding a discussion. You can read others' body language and see when to speak up. Zoom works fine for very small groups ( * Impromptu chats after class with professors to as…

I'm pretty sure you can replicate all that remotely... you may not have the tools to make theses easy to replicate right now (though I'm pretty sure it still possible), but that just show there's a market for theses tools.

Facebook did just that when it got out, it made easier to move a IRL friendship to one online.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#280

Post by hoot » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #271

rdslw wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tuition can't be changed because (whatever) Nope. What you're saying is "I cant restructure my business becasue I have high costs". Your competitor disrupting your business could not care less.

Online courses have been around for years and they all still suck. If anything this is a boon to colleges in the long run - it has proven, without a doubt, how much worse online learning truly is. It has been around for a decade now - and it still sucks.

What? While in college, I learned way more of the required content over Youtube videos then I ever did in a lecture.