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Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

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Re: Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

#201
This comment was on a dupe thread and I'm adding it here in case this gets un-flagged. There is a good reason to discuss this:

I sympathize with the argument that social platforms are private and can do business (or not) with whomever they please, the counter argument is that these platforms are "Radical Monopolies" (https://wikitia.com/wiki/Radical_Monopoly) apropos of a recent HN thread on Ivan Illich, where the analogy for the effect of being kicked off a platform is not like Ford declining to sell you a car where you can just go get another one, but rather, cancelling your license in Los Angeles.

It's not 1:1, but if you lose your drivers license in a city like LA or non-coastal state, your ability to participate in society (find work, etc) and your social franchise in society is diminished because the automobile has a radical monopoly in American cities.

Twitter and social platforms like Facebook have definitely become radical monopolies for reputation, where if you have no social media presence, you are excluded socially. (Regarding Facebook, try find a date without an instagram page.) Facebook execs even commented publicly early on that people without Facebook accounts should be treated as suspicious.

That QAnon types are so ridiculous and indefensible is what makes them a great example for discussing how and whether to protect minority views. Twitter does have the right to do what they want, and I'm optimistic that these purges will create demand for the divergent platforms that will replace this first generation of them, but to say this right is simple and natural ignores precedents of radical monopolies that were enabled and sustained by political protection, which seems naive. The non-libertarian case for limiting social platforms ability to purge can be summed up in president Obama's thoughts,when he said, "you didn't build that."

Arguably, social platforms that rely on network effects to become radical monopolies didn't "build that," either.

Re: Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For better or worse, many restaurants have dress codes.

But the restaurant is required to be consistent applying it, no? Can they refuse service because you’re not wearing a tie while simultaneously serving the guy in flip flops?

If that's the case, night clubs have been violating that rule for ages.

Re: Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

#203

This comment was on a dupe thread and I'm adding it here in case this gets un-flagged. There is a good reason to discuss this: I sympathize with the argument that social platforms are private and can do business (or not) with whomever they please, the counter argument is that these platforms are "Radical Monopolies" ( https://wikitia.com/wiki/Radical_Monopoly ) apropos of a recent HN thread on Ivan Illich, where the…

I'm not sure what you mean by "enabled and sustained by political protection" in this context. Facebook and Twitter didn't have to build the web infrastructure, but there were other social networks in existence before those two became dominant. I'm not sure how we perceive their network effects as non-self-built.

Facebook beat out competitors with two advantages: access to primary sources (they primed the network with college students) and requirement to use real names, which set them apart from other persona-based social networks at the time and encouraged people to be their "normal selves" on FB. Turns out, that's what a lot of people wanted; relative to the cyberpunk-esque other options, it felt "normal and safe." They made a market choice and it paid off for them.

Re: Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I understood your point correctly, a company could get in trouble for refusing to service someone based on some stated reason (e.g. your clothes) if it can be shown that they do serve other people that match that given reason. Ah, no, I didn’t quite spell that out. They can get in trouble if their stated reason for refusing service doesn’t line up with the way they treat other people who behave the same way, IF…

I’ve found this link [1] though I have no idea if what they say is accurate. But they seem to claim companies actually do have to behave consistently in this regard: [...] you can refuse to serve someone even if they’re in a protected group, but the refusal can’t be arbitrary and you can’t apply it to just one group of people. To avoid being arbitrary, there must be a reason for refusing service and you must be consi…

The missing piece of the puzzle is that in US law, there are some very specific groups of people who are carved out as having special protection (the general guiding philosophy is: it's not legal to discriminate against people for some innate qualities, including race or gender).

So the missing piece of the puzzle is: which of the protected groups would every member of QAnon fall under? There's no law against discriminating against people who believe the QAnon conspiracy and spread it.

Re: Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

#205
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched the video and it seemed pretty obvious that the old man responded mockingly to the other person accusing him of white power. I don’t think the driver was actually chanting white power as a claim that white power was his desire. Now, there’s certainly an argument for not making such a response and to channel anger better and not joke about such things. But I don’t think retweeting that video is a show of sup…

Perhaps the chanter was being ironically racist, but I think its pretty hard to see Trump's retweeting of it as ironic.

I don’t think he was being ironically racist.

Here’s how I interpreted it...

Someone says “I bet you beat your spouse and children? It’s such an insane statement I say “Oh yeah, I’m definite a spouse beater. Beating spouses is a great thing. We all should beat our spouses and children!”

I don’t think that’s ironically condoning domestic violence. It’s an as absurdism response. If I was captured on video with such a response and you retweeted it, I don’t think it’s likely that the retweeter was condoning domestic violence.

Thus saying “prepend condones domestic violence.”

Re: Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

#206
post #40
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched the video and it seemed pretty obvious that the old man responded mockingly to the other person accusing him of white power. I don’t think the driver was actually chanting white power as a claim that white power was his desire. Now, there’s certainly an argument for not making such a response and to channel anger better and not joke about such things. But I don’t think retweeting that video is a show of sup…

This falls under the Rule of Goats https://twitter.com/popehat/status/858722120620265473

I don’t think the old guy ironically fucked a goat here. I think he claimed that he was a goat fucker to demonstrate the absurdity of the accusation.

Re: Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

#207
post #37
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched the video and it seemed pretty obvious that the old man responded mockingly to the other person accusing him of white power. I don’t think the driver was actually chanting white power as a claim that white power was his desire. Now, there’s certainly an argument for not making such a response and to channel anger better and not joke about such things. But I don’t think retweeting that video is a show of sup…

Poor taste is much more likely. Was that not the very point of some people’s frustration? Why does the intentions of the person on the video need justification, rationalization or explanation?

I agree but brought it up as OP stated that POTUS endorses racism and white power through the tweet. I think I may be automatically biased against his tweets. But if a regular person posted that video I wouldn’t consider it endorsement of white power.

Perhaps if there’s more context on the person in the video that would help. It seems like a frustrated response pointing out absurdity. But if the person flies a nazi flag then that would change my mind.

Re: Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

#208

For those looking for a viable, already-blooming alternative, with resistance to such problems, look into the Fediverse. https://torresjrjr.com/archive/2020-07-19-guide-to-the-fediv...

Unpopular opinion: while I don't oppose the existence of non-moderated social networks in the sense that I'd want them extinguished overtly, I'm not deeply convinced they're good, especially in this decade.

gab.ai gave breathing room for a man to be so radicalized by surrounding himself with anti-Jewish conspiracy that he murdered people at a synagogue. 4chan is a notorious breeding ground of terrible memetic hazards (including, notably, QAnon).

I don't guarantee Fediverse will end up the same, but the alternative services seem to collect mostly fringers who got kicked off of mainstream services with cause, and that's not a group I intend to support with my time and engineering labor. When I see a new social media site pop up, the first question I have is "What stops it from being the next gab.ai?"

Re: Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison to hate groups is a little off the mark. QAnon doesn't organize in secret, and so far you're not likely to get fired if someone shows a picture of you wearing a Q shirt to your employer. That said I agree with the broader point that this may not do that much to inhibit QAnon, especially because it exhibits a lot of cultlike belief that might just be reinforced by this ban.

In fact, "Q" predicted this behavior by the social media platforms over a year ago, so the QAnon movement is not, in general, surprised by Twitter. According to their conspiracy, Twitter just checked off a box in the list of items they believe will happen coming up in the future.

As prognostications go, "The mainstream media will find my nonsense so aggressively hateful that they'll kick it off the site" is right up there with "It'll be cold in winter."

Especially when Q controls the level of the aggressive hate in the nonsense.

Re: Twitter bans 7k QAnon accounts, limits 150k others as part of broad crackdown

#210
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the right to post on twitter, or even have a platform isn't a human right, it's not even a constitutional right, it's a 'privilege' the company gives you as long as you don't act like an idiot. Just like every web forum on the internet since aol and newsgroups in the 90s. W/out twitter you lose a voice you'd never have had if Twitter didn't exist, so by them banning hate speech maybe if your voice matters you'll exer…

The problem is that the same argument is used in dictatorships to ban people and activist from traditional media(print/TV). Right now, what prevents Russian government/companies going to twitter and telling them look guys, you just banned your American extremists, can you please do the same for ours. They also practice hate speech, disinformation etc. The only problem is that Russian extremists look like average cent…

Not quite. The key difference is that dictatorships will also shut down independent publications they accuse of wrongspeech.

Nobody is arguing Stormfront should be shut down. In fact, the argument looks more like "Twitter is no more obligated to host the QAnon conspiracy theory than Stormfront is to host a weekly editorial from the head of the Anti-Defamation League."

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