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Building a Developer Cult

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Re: Building a Developer Cult

#61
post #30
post #22

I recently built a Stripe integration, and can't say I'm especially impressed. Unless I completely missed some aspects, it mostly just seems like an interface to their database. While this is great for some advanced workflows, the vast majority of use cases are all very similar: "create subscription and customer", "change subscription", etc. Common workflows require quite some coding, and there's no support for trans…

It helps that basically the only other option, PayPal, is a complete disaster. So, even if Stripe is suboptimal, everybody is so much happier to be away from PayPal that they're ecstatic. It's the equivalent of having a mediocre sandwich when you're starving.

People forget Braintree Payments from PayPal.

While the docs are confusing and the API info incomplete, once past that the experience has been good. Having a pre-written embeddable JS widget that takes care of adding support for credit cards/PayPal/Apple Pay/Google Pay was a real time saver over Stripe.

The kicker is the default fees are higher than Stripe, but Braintree will negotiate.

Re: Building a Developer Cult

#63
post #3

What makes Stripe good now is what made it good way back when they first launched: Handling payments sucks and they make it suck less. The design, etc. is the gravy on top of a successful runaway train.

The remarkable thing about the culture around Stripe is that they still get the credit for the things they did well in those early days, even though they are far from the same service now that they've scaled up. Objectively, today's Stripe is often a relatively expensive and unreliable way to collect money from your customers. The API and developer documentation are no longer as simple and effective as they once were…

This is my experience too.

> who might be better served by one or more of the alternatives and should at least be considering the full range of options available to them.

Which alternatives should I consider, if I need PSD2? I've written about my experience with Braintree above; there's SagePay but every client has been pleased to move away from them.

Re: Building a Developer Cult

#64

There was a long time when Stripe was taking a significantly higher transaction fee than most other merchants for cc transactions yet there still was fervent developer push to use it anyways (Note, this hasn't been true for a few years and was only true during the first year or two of Stripe's life). People made all kinds of rationalizations to themselves for using stripe at a much higher cost simply because they did…

My first business that used Stripe was with them from their early days in the UK, and my recollection is very different to yours. They were potentially a bit more expensive in terms of fees than getting a separate merchant account and payment gateway set up, but not hugely so and at least they were consistent and transparent about those fees. Moreover, they were vastly different in terms of the ease of integration. T…

U.K. was probably different, but in my mind both Authorize.net and PayPal were the established players in the US market for online credit card transactions before Stripe.

Authorize.net was (and still is) a "gateway" - you pick the merchant and use Authorize.net for the actual technical layer of processing a transaction - which was kind of a confusing concept, but there were plenty of merchants on authorize.net's marketplace that had much better rates than Stripe. I don't recall there being an onerous application process or the restrictions you mentioned, but it could be that I was shielded from that side of things.

Both Authorize.net and PayPal had pretty gross API's (and documentation) but they were pretty solid once you got them working. Obviously it depends on the nature of your business, but saving even 10 cents per transactions goes a long ways for many and quickly justifies a day or even a week of additional coder time. It wasn't that onerous of a task to implement one of the non-Stripe options.

Paypal of course was it's own beast with it's insanely draconian policies towards account holders, but I never had to deal with that (luckily).

Re: Building a Developer Cult

#65

If we are taking about Stripe, we should mention the silent competitor barely anyone talks or knows about outside the payments industry: Adyen. Stripe’s current, (private) valuation is $36B. Developers love them. Adyen’s current, public valuation is $43B (they IPO’d amongst little press coverage). Most developers don’t know about them. So what is the difference? Market strategy. Adyen only goes after large businesses…

Could you elaborate on how company culture is different?

Re: Building a Developer Cult

#66
I believe, that there are plenty of areas where you could succeed by literally just building what is already here but making it actually good.

Less features but better quality including with UX.

Re: Building a Developer Cult

#67

If we are taking about Stripe, we should mention the silent competitor barely anyone talks or knows about outside the payments industry: Adyen. Stripe’s current, (private) valuation is $36B. Developers love them. Adyen’s current, public valuation is $43B (they IPO’d amongst little press coverage). Most developers don’t know about them. So what is the difference? Market strategy. Adyen only goes after large businesses…

Why is it remarkable that the company is based in Amsterdam?

I live there. There's a decent but not great startup culture. The services infrastructure is fantastic and there are many massive multinationals based here.

Re: Building a Developer Cult

#68
Ah, the new Stripe design.

https://dribbble.com/shots/13676278-Home covers it, and the comments on it are unanimously positive (and also shallow).

Yet I open https://stripe.com and observe a page mostly incapable of hitting 60fps in its animations, which doesn’t scroll smoothly because of this, and which is intensely CPU-demanding (it immediately makes my laptop’s fans spin up, and I imagine it’d be draining the battery far quicker than normal). And that’s what I end up focusing on, rather than any prettiness. I don’t like websites that make my browser slow and my computer noisy, and will tend to close them far more quickly—either immediately, or go in, get the information, get out, rather than perhaps lingering.

They’ve focused on subjective prettiness at substantial and unnecessary cost. They could have implemented something just as subjectively pretty that didn’t perform so terribly, but they didn’t. (Fortunately it’s only the front page that suffers in this way.)

And on Dribbble: this sort of response is pretty standard: when something popular and pretty comes up, people seldom make any critical comment on even glaring usability problems. When something is obviously a catastrophically bad idea, maybe one or two people pipe up as dissenters, but even then their feedback will be muted. And don’t get me started on how people present their web design screenshots, framing them on a background that is essential to making key aspects of the design work, but which will be necessarily absent in the actual deployment—this is rank dishonesty, in my opinion, but it’s also ubiquitous on the platform.

As with Stripe’s popularity, these Dribbble things are a deliberate culture thing (problem, I’d say): the Dribbble community is interested in prettiness and doesn’t want to hear about impracticality or any form of negative feedback. This has probably helped with the platform’s popularity—it lets you feel good, everyone likes what you’ve made. Being largely invitation-only has also helped them create and sustain this echo chamber. (“Echo chamber” is a term too freely used, but it’s quite apt on Dribbble.) Otherwise I might create an account named “Honest Critic” and make a habit of pointing out problems in shots—not to be a downer or to condemn their work, but to help them improve it, and hopefully realise that they should care about these things.

Re: Building a Developer Cult

#69
post #3

What makes Stripe good now is what made it good way back when they first launched: Handling payments sucks and they make it suck less. The design, etc. is the gravy on top of a successful runaway train.

The remarkable thing about the culture around Stripe is that they still get the credit for the things they did well in those early days, even though they are far from the same service now that they've scaled up. Objectively, today's Stripe is often a relatively expensive and unreliable way to collect money from your customers. The API and developer documentation are no longer as simple and effective as they once were…

> Something fundamentally changed about Stripe's support a few years ago, and it seemed like almost overnight they went from routinely having knowledgeable people replying with helpful suggestions to having people who can't even be bothered to read your message before hitting whatever button sends boilerplate reply #74 with platitudes #27 and #53 at the start and end.

That's definitely my experience with Stripe support over the years, too. A definite degradation. Really annoying.

Re: Building a Developer Cult

#70

If we are taking about Stripe, we should mention the silent competitor barely anyone talks or knows about outside the payments industry: Adyen. Stripe’s current, (private) valuation is $36B. Developers love them. Adyen’s current, public valuation is $43B (they IPO’d amongst little press coverage). Most developers don’t know about them. So what is the difference? Market strategy. Adyen only goes after large businesses…

Why is it remarkable that the company is based in Amsterdam? I live there. There's a decent but not great startup culture. The services infrastructure is fantastic and there are many massive multinationals based here.

I believe that "remarkable" was referring to Adyen getting and seeking little to no publicity compared to Stripe, yet having a higher market valuation, rather than its location in the Netherlands.
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