Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

buzzfeednews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

941–950 of 954 posts

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#941

Post by koop123 »

oramit wrote: post #358

What we currently have going on right now is a complete collapse in confidence. So many commenters are debating the death rate, case counts, hospitalizations, etc, which is all besides the point. Heres the thing: even if you believe people are being irrationally afraid, telling people they are stupid and should just suck it up isn't going to get people to cooperate. Do you want to be smugly right, or do you want thin…

Cooperation? Are you kidding me? What this is is two contrasting view points (maybe you can describe them as democratic or republican) that can't decide how to manage things and I think the only big mistake we made was shutting down in the first place because there's no way we could have possibly kept things down for more than two months in the first place. So we fucked our economy and made everyone change their behavior to try to save everyone. The problem with that logic, is that is not possible to save everyone in the first place. Stop blaming Trump because this lack of national plan that you believe is possible (which isn't and never will be) is because of all of our politicans suck and cannot agree on a plan you idiot.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#942

Post by wegs »

yosho wrote: post #940
wegs wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not research. That's opinion pieces from research organizations. There's a question of values, which is a personal question. I don't want the moral weight of risking that my child catch COVID19 and cause someone else to die. If I were a teacher, I wouldn't want to be in a position where a mistake I make can make people die. I can run the numbers as well as the next guy, and I know the risks. I don't want my sc…

It's not really a question of values because depending on what the actual death rate actually is, you can make informed objectionable decisions based off of it that two rational people with different values should agree upon. For example, if you determined that the risk of death from Covid was less than the risk of death from driving in a year, than I would argue that you should accept that risk if you're okay with d…

People make different decisions there too. Some drive recklessly, and some are super-conservative, exactly because of values.

But rationally, you wouldn't make determinations like the ones you're making. False->True isn't a helpful argument. COVID19 isn't the flu, and it isn't driving. Unfortunately, COVID is very, very dangerous, both in terms of death and in terms of long-term disability.

America has already lost more than the combat deaths of WWI and Vietnam combined, and that's with the level of shutdowns we've had. Many of the people who live seem to have horrible symptoms for months; it's too early to know long-term outcomes. In New York, 7.5% of the people who we know caught it died. You can apply whatever corrections you like for underreporting, etc. (and conversely, people who haven't died yet) but the death rate doesn't approach that of the flus or of driving.

If 20 million weren't unemployed, we didn't have achievement gaps, and the nation wasn't saddled with crippling fixed costs like debt, leases, and rents, we'd all be staying home. As is, it's a question of values.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#943

Post by int_19h »

eaandkw wrote: post #896
int_19h wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody who actually lived in the USSR in 1980s (a reminder that it ceased to exist in 1991), that's not even wrong.

I’m not being sarcastic here but do you mean that my comment was correct? At least mostly.

I mean the opposite. The degree of government centralization and intrusiveness in US today is nowhere even close to what it was in USSR circa 1980s. And it's still one of the most decentralized countries in the world in general.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#944

Post by bmitc »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #902
bmitc wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you suggesting is a delaying tactic? What is the thing being delayed?

The delaying was so that we 'delayed' or avoided overfilling the hospitals and causing a lot of secondary death and damage. Delay people getting sick, reduce the max. Spread the infections out over time.

I don't think that's necessarily what the person I replied to is talking about, given their language, which is why I asked.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#945

Post by yboris »

yboris wrote: post #78
engineer_22 wrote: post #11

It's too late to put the genie back in the bottle. Whether we like it or not we're going with the Sweden Model. I've got school age kids myself, and I understand the risk. This is going to be a situation that could become hard to manage but our society's economy is constructed in such a way that relies on daytime programming for children and teens outside of their home. The teachers are going to have to help bear the…

You say you understand the risk. Do your kids have a say in this? It's their lives on the line. Would you respect their decision if they insist they are unwilling to go to school in person?

I'm puzzled why my comment got downvoted. Perhaps someone could explain?

I was pointing out that the language the commenter used made it seem like his children's opinions were not taken into consideration.

For simple analogy, imagine if he said "I have a wife myself, and I understand the risks" when insisting that his wife needs to go to a place many consider dangerous.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#946

Post by fsociety »

mistermann wrote: post #921
rorykoehler wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clinton isn’t incompetent with a long list of failures behind her name. I despise her but to think that she wouldn’t have been better at handling the pandemic response than Trump is delusional.

> Clinton isn’t incompetent with a long list of failures behind her name. This is subjective and necessarily highly speculative. > I despise her but to think that she wouldn’t have been better at handling the pandemic response than Trump is delusional. Predicting or thinking (about) that is perfectly fine and reasonable. Mistaking subsequent predictions for conclusive facts is what is actually delusional. There are m…

Right but you didn’t write anything about this particular situation. Instead you created doubt in the conversation because we don’t have 100% of the facts.

In leadership not making a decision until you have 100% of the facts, and truly know something to be a fact, will kill your ability to be effective.

Trump didn’t make a decision, instead he called the virus a hoax and prevented experts from providing insight to a situation where we didn’t have all the facts.

On the next sentence I’m going to write, no I don’t have 100% of the facts but I can certainly make an informed statement.

Trump fucked this country up and Clinton would’ve had a better response to this pandemic - regardless of who you identify as how could you not accept this.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#947

Post by s1artibartfast »

MereInterest wrote: post #814
s1artibartfast wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you share a link? What I have read about charter schools in NY was very positive

Certainly. [1] gives a good overview, on how Devos pushed for more and more charter schools, without any requirement for credentials. [2] is some focus on the history of charter schools in Michigan, Devos's home state. [3] is a local news story (tracked down from some articles that reference it), going into a lawsuit about the poor performance of schools in the Detroit area, following the siphoning of funds to charte…

I wanted to circle back and say thanks for providing the links.

The wapo article was garbage (really, 3 sentences?) , but I found the michigan advance ariccle informative. I still don't agree with your conclusions, but now know there is a questionable track record in Detroit. I think the connection between Devos and charters and her influences is overstated, as they existed in numerous states long before she held any federal positions.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#948

Post by thirdsun »

panzagl wrote: post #717
jorblumesea wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's easy to blame Trump (and he deserves a heaping pile of blame), the corruption and destruction of a functional US government has long been the goal of those on the right. Since the 80s there has been a concerted movement to defund and destroy the effective ability of our government for ideological and personal reasons. Then, when the water treatment plants break down or the education system is a mess they c…

So the thing is, since WWII we've switched pretty evenly between the 'left' party and the 'right' party at the national level. All administrations/Congresses have been quick to sell us out to foreign and corporate interests, whether it's Bush going to war for oil or Obama forcing everyone to buy health insurance.

Do you really think that sane health care, a problem the rest of the world has figured out long ago, is nothing more than a scheme to serve corporate interests? Or on the same level as intentionally going to war based on misleading, if not downright incorrect, justifications. I can't believe what I'm reading here.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#949

Post by adamsea »

matz1 wrote: post #693
burner831234 wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing for someone to write off 140k deaths. Only 58,000 died in Vietnam. Thats literally in and out of "theaters of war". 1900 died in the Gulf war and those are ppl who "signed up for it". So, only 140k died. Callous AF.

Because its not worth it to make millions other people suffer due to lockdown.

I hope your grandmother doesn't live in your ideal society. Forgive the strong language but my point is it's precisely the most vulnerable / neglected / oppressed of our fellow citizens and members of our society who are / have been the most at risk to coronavirus.

And that's an important consideration when we think about why a lockdown is important as well.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#950

Post by strgcmc »

jdminhbg wrote: post #786
strgcmc wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And maybe we shouldn't trust China's reported data, but Europe is almost doing miraculously well if you compare to the USA. Not going for eradication, but containment. With containment, everything else is possible (healthcare system not overloaded, economy can be opened up, schools can reopen, etc.). The US has capitulated completely, and even containment isn't really on the table nationally; on a state-by-stat…

> but Europe is almost doing miraculously well if you compare to the USA. This is totally at odds with the data. The UK, France, Spain, and Italy, among others, have higher deaths per capita than the US.

Providing a source to confirm your statement: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat...

IMO, the US will almost certainly make up a lot of ground on the deaths per capita metric (or leapfrog entirely), given the explosion of new cases starting in June and the lagging growth in deaths that comes after cases. Scroll down to the "Deaths" section with the weekly per capita "heat spectrum" of sorts, and the US recently has reached red hot over the past few weeks, while European counterparts have been much cooler: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-m...

Post reply on HN