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Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

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Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#121

Post by asguy »

gshulegaard wrote: post #117
asguy wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So let me be honest, these aren't riots. Take it from a local...but also note that this local is not a participant so my perspective is from an arm's length at best. I'm a local, that lives within a 5 block radius of where this has been going on for weeks. I'd call them riots. I've seen with my own eyes, both sides shooting munitions at each other. Property is being destroyed. People are being assaulted. This [0] h…

> I'm a local, that lives within a 5 block radius of where this has been going on for weeks Neat, I also live 5 blocks away from the Edith Green - Wendell Wyatt Federal Building. And what I said is that there is violence going on and PPD has been trying to walk the line of declaring unlawful gatherings while respecting freedom of assembly for the majority who are non-violent. I am fine with Federal agents defending F…

That's also neat, but I'm responding to you not calling them riots. Stay on target.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#122

Post by krapp »

throwaway_USD wrote: post #74
krapp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you didn't. You replied to those people that they could pry your guns from your cold, dead hands and they would be the first against the wall when the revolution came. You told us you and your guns were the only things keeping the only free state in existence truly free. You waxed poetic about watering the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants. You called anyone who believed in any form of gun control a cowar…

Maybe its not just so much about "allowing" these acts because they are happening to "the other side", but just like most people who talk a big game when push came to shove they found themselves shitting their pants and realizing their worst fears about the government came true and their worst fears about themselves that they are all talk and it was easy to scream give me freedom or give me death until the armed gove…

It seems to be about both. You can find plenty of comments from gun advocates in this thread claiming that these protestors deserve what they get because they're probably anti-gun anyway.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#123

Post by koheripbal »

Munky-Necan wrote: post #23

I'm surprised that someone hasn't been shot yet. Unmarked camouflage officers in unmarked vans that do not identify themselves as officers sounds like they might get shot at if they try detaining the wrong person.

They aren't unmarked - their camouflage uniform clearly says "POLICE" on the front.

To be clear, do not shoot someone with POLICE written on their uniform, or even anyone you suspect might be a police officer, because you will spend the rest of your life in jail.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#124

Post by jandrewrogers »

pmoriarty wrote: post #112

Why isn't Oregon law enforcement treating this as they do any other kidnappings: by finding and arresting the kidnappers, and freeing the victims? The people who ordered the kidnappings could also be rounded up on charges of conspiracy.

This presumes that local law enforcement with the requisite authority to allow this, such as the county sheriff, has not assented to the Federal agents operating in their jurisdiction. Many of the complaints are coming from people (like the Mayor of Portland) that have no meaningful authority over the operation of the Federal government in their jurisdiction. And the people that do have authority are quiet.

It looks more like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, and the right hand doesn't need the left hand's permission to do it.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#125

Post by alexose »

cwhiz wrote: post #118
chance_state wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any thoughts on the secret police snatching Americans off the streets and disappearing them? Or mostly just mad about rioting?

Read the article and dial back the absurd hyperbole.

I wouldn't call it hyperbole. Men in fatigues, who decline to identify themselves as law enforcement, are grabbing protesters off the streets and putting them in unmarked minivans. There are videos of this. From the article:

> On July 12 a peaceful protester was struck in the head with an “impact weapon” and sustained severe injuries, according to the AG’s office. On Thursday, it says, “an unmarked minivan with undercover federal agents wearing generic green military fatigues” forcibly detained a second protester, who was later released.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#126

Post by koheripbal »

mfer wrote: post #59

I'm left with a lot of questions like... When someone is arrested there are certain legal requirements, like the miranda warning, that must be done. Are those all being followed? People need to be charged in the proper jurisdiction for the proper laws. Is that happening? A person can only be held in custody for a limited period of time without charges being filed. Is this being followed? Are the details documented an…

Miranda must only be given prior to interrogation - it does not need to be given prior to arrest. Anything the suspect says is inadmissible until Miranda is read.

According to reports, Miranda is being read to people after they are taken away.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#127

Post by Kednicma »

Google234 wrote: post #17

Maybe these Portlanders should stop trying to burn down the federal courthouse.

How would they do it? Heck, how would you do it?

This isn't idle banter, nor am I trolling for a ban or an FBI watchlist. The federal courthouse building [0] is one of several stone buildings downtown, built out of massive blocks of stone on the outside, with a core of steel and concrete. This building is basically a block-sized stone. I've been inside it a few times. I would not characterize it as flammable in the slightest.

Additionally, even during peaceful times, the courthouse blocks are designed to be guarded. Each courthouse is inset from the street and there are stone steps giving guards the high ground. I have personally had an experience where I was walking past this building, and I looked up the stairs at the door, and I slowed down. Within about five seconds, the door was open and a federal agent was asking me what I needed, while I was still standing on the sidewalk. The sidewalks are covered with spaces for police and federal agents to park, and again even during peaceful times, ever since 9/11 there have been multiple federal cars parked around these blocks.

So yeah, on both "how oxidize building" and "how not get shot by feds", I'd rate this courthouse 0/10, could not burn it and I'd get shot if I tried.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_J._Solomon_United_States_C...

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#129

Post by koheripbal »

lordofgibbons wrote: post #70
Google234 wrote: post #17

Maybe these Portlanders should stop trying to burn down the federal courthouse.

Agreed. No rights for the suspected criminals! Let's round them up all of the suspects and put them in a dark hole with no records of the detainment

The process of arrest and bringing them to court is literally the process by which the gov't shows the court the evidence against them.

So you have a few videos of their arrest... what's the problem?

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#130

Post by throwaway_USD »

beervirus wrote: post #113
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked, the fed doesn't have policing power, only states do. This is a huge overstep of states rights.

That’s the plenary “police power” you’re thinking of, and it has a lot more to do with the constitutionality of legislation than with actual police work. It doesn’t mean that federal officers can never engage in police-like activities. See, e.g., the FBI.

We have seen federal agents acting as police and detaining and arresting individuals on the streets over objections from the Governor and Mayor.

If you are going to support these acts:

1. Cite any legal precedent where Federal government has policed and made arrests over state/local government objections?

2. Identify the Federal Criminal Statute any of the suspects violated authorizing these "arrests"? (presumably even if you believe the Federal government has the power to police over State/local objections, you hopefully agree they don't have the power to make arrests without probably cause a crime was committed, so what is are the federal criminal statutes?)

3. Now even supposing the Court did side with the Federal Government, finding that they have police powers they may unilaterally deploy over objections from local governments and that the arrests here were lawful, you would still tons of other Constitutional issues. For example: in all the arrests I have seen, I have not seen any miranda warnings, post arrest I have yet to find any confirmation the arrestees were afforded their constitutional rights to an attorney...seeing as the Federal agents to date have not had these traditional police powers I think it is fair to assume they haven't received this basic training, and for that reason alone even if the Fed had these powers they are still likely violating numerous constitutional rights in each arrest.

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