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Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#641

Post by Enginerrrd »

peterwoerner wrote: post #620
mikeg8 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - this never really occurred to me either. My girlfriend's mother is a preschool teacher who just had to go back to in-person sessions and she believes some of these kids will have trauma's from being young and terrified. One little girl is afraid to touch anything and constantly asks if objects have been cleaned/safe to touch? it's heartbreaking to her.

Sounds like a bunch of children just got trained to have obsessive compulsive disorder. My wife has it and my life was filled with contamination fears before COVID-19.

As someone who used to struggle with OCD in my youth: Procedural awareness of sterile field and infection control is a very different thing from OCD. OCD can't really be taught like that.

Neat freak=/=OCD.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#642

Post by shreyansj »

adolph wrote: post #634
shreyansj wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if everyone had stayed locked in for 6 weeks and if that had prevented 50000 deaths, how is that not worth it?

It depends on the denominator. There is no free lunch. If there is an estimate for death prevention, what is the estimated cost in lives? Given that death is a certainty for all, how many lost person-days do the 50k deaths represent? Since the lock down means no normal activities such as routine doctor visits, how many person-days would be lost due to undetected illness or delayed treatment? Staying locked in is a st…

Here's the other side - How many deaths are acceptable? If death is a certainty for all, should we just get rid of the health care systems? Should we stop research into some of the diseases? Which ones? How many person-days/productivity has been lost because of preventable deaths?

We are talking about a 4/6/8 week lockdown, that's not long term, that's immediate term.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#643

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

chrisseaton wrote: post #514
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My girlfriend is a middle school guidance counselor. She was spending most of her week during the end of the school year dealing with referrals from teachers for students who weren't doing any work at home. Not just slacking off some, but entirely refusing to do anything. She'd try contacting the parents but many would never return her calls. The few she did contact weren't very concerned or admitted they lacked a wa…

If a child refuses to do anything when they were physically in school what was being done about it then? You can’t physically force someone to learn then and you can’t now. Not sure anything’s changed really. All they did before was remove disruptive children and now I guess they remove themselves. Remains an unsolved problem!

You'd send them to in-school expulsion (basically an empty room for 8 hours, no talking, no phones allowed.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#644

Post by watwut »

marcell wrote: post #618
watwut wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete eradication is not what Europe nor China are doing and have better results.

It's not really clear they are having better results. I don't know what the numbers are out of China, but certainly in Europe they had really big outbreaks in Italy, France, the UK, Spain, and other places as well. Their outcomes are pretty similar, in terms of deaths per capita, to the United States. I think most media outlets are over-emphasizing the impact of government interventions, and under-emphasizing the imp…

Except that big outbreaks were used as learning experience by other places who managed to contain issue before it became big and are opening now. While having enough testing capacitiy and experimenting with exact rules that allow them to open up.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#645

Post by AnimalMuppet »

dmm wrote: post #448
thephyber wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but its a good kind of weird. This isn't guaranteed. A counterexample is Tara Westover[1] who grew up in an extremist version of what you are describing. She ultimately became successful but it was mostly despite her parents isolation from "the system", not because of them. [1] https://www.npr.org/2018/02/20/587244230/memoirist-retraces-...

I went to public schools for 12 years and I still turned out weird. No guarantees either way. I think the view that homeschooled kids are weird is caused less by homeschooling and more by the fact that weirdos are more likely to homeschool.

Let's say your kid is "weird" - on the autism spectrum, or ADD, or has severe allergies, or whatever. That can often cause problems in school, because children are often cruel. Parents of such children may be more likely to homeschool them than parents of kids that better fit the "normal" pattern.

Let's say the kid turns out a little weird. Would they have turned out better going through the public school system?

It's not necessarily fair to blame the homeschooling if the kids come out different. What were they at the start?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#646

Post by Avicebron »

watwut wrote: post #605
maerF0x0 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be interesting to see the data of which is more effective. I'm currently biased towards believing that masks were highly effective and SIP orders mostly are not (because people still leave for groceries, for example) . If we create the false dichotomy of Masks vs SIP I would recommend Masks

Shelter in place works everywhere except in America, which is always special. And if people go to buy food, that totally negates lack of contact everywhere else, including restaurants, concerts, offices, schools, sport clubs and so on.

I'm curious of your claim that SIP works everywhere except in America?

Can you elaborate?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#647

Post by burner831234 »

matz1 wrote: post #120
lm28469 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm saying the risk is very low. The data clearly shown that for majority of cases it either asymptotic or only mild symptom. The data also shows that 140k Americans died (probably many more if you take into account the excess deaths that have been recorded but haven't been linked to covid yet) and many more will suffer long term side effects. The data also shows that Europeans countries almost completely curbed th…

So only 140k died (0.04%) and with now with the death rate that is going down, its a good news, even more reason to reopen as soon as possible.

Amazing for someone to write off 140k deaths. Only 58,000 died in Vietnam. Thats literally in and out of "theaters of war". 1900 died in the Gulf war and those are ppl who "signed up for it".

So, only 140k died. Callous AF.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#648

Post by sfteus »

isthispermanent wrote: post #617
sfteus wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you compare per capital rates ours were actually on par with most other first world nations Not true, we're squarely between several 2nd and 3rd world countries: https://www.statista.com/chart/21176/covid-19-infection-dens... > until the recent protests (both left and right) began Not true, current research does not link any outbreaks to protests (BLM protests at least), mostly due to the fact that protesters we…

1. All sorts of problems with that Statista chart. Just for starters it doesn't take into account number of tests being performed per 1m/pp. 2. Would it be astronomical? Total speculation. That's just a hysterical statement that doesn't point to a problem or a solution. There is some anecdotal evidence that a small fraction of those that develop symptoms but do not become fatal can have lasting effects from the virus…

1) Chile, Kuwait, and Singapore have similar rates of testing to the US [1]

2) Current studies show roughly somewhere between 10-20% of hospitalized patients ending up with heart damage, increasing their future risks of heart attacks and strokes.[2][3] Up to 36% of hospitalized patients are displaying neurological symptoms, with possible damage.[4] Up to 60% are ending up with ARDS which may be permanent.[5]

Extracting that with current numbers, assuming we had a 50% infection rate, 15% hospitalization rate [6][7], and a 1% death rate, we'd have ~1.5 million dead, ~22.5 million hospitalized, ~3.375 million with heart damage, ~8 million with neurological issues, ~13.5 million with ARDS.

Obviously many of these would overlap, but it sounds pretty devastating to me.

[1]: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing#the-scale-of-...

[2]: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/...

[3]: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

[4]: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2...

[5]: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2...

[6]: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidvi...

[7]: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.h...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#649

Post by burner831234 »

shreyansj wrote: post #635
marcell wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it's worth it or not, but after you end the lockdown, you have the same situation you did at the start of the lockdown. I think there's a huge misconception in many media sources that lockdown will somehow eliminate the virus. It can change the onset pattern of the virus, but that's it.

It's amazing to wonder whether any step, any inconvenience is worth saving even lives when the magnitude of that is in the thousands. Countries have literally been bombed over far fewer deaths.

Such a good point. Ppl really do not seem to understand this.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#650

Post by AnimalMuppet »

cortesoft wrote: post #554
nvahalik wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You learn with them, basically. Or you find other people in your community that can help. I’m not sure about others but most people don’t homeschool in isolation.

> Or you find other people in your community that can help. But that is school.

It may be "school", but it's not at a public school building. It's wherever the co-op meets, or wherever your mentor is.
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