Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#631

Post by jedberg » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

marcell wrote: post #618

watwut wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete eradication is not what Europe nor China are doing and have better results.

It's not really clear they are having better results. I don't know what the numbers are out of China, but certainly in Europe they had really big outbreaks in Italy, France, the UK, Spain, and other places as well. Their outcomes are pretty similar, in terms of deaths per capita, to the United States. I think most media outlets are over-emphasizing the impact of government interventions, and under-emphasizing the imp…

> Their outcomes are pretty similar, in terms of deaths per capita, to the United States.

Except that they are all now on downward trajectories while being more open (as opposed to the US, which is on an upward trajectory). Travel is allowed in Europe. Schools are open. Bars are open. And they are still on a downward trajectory.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#632

Post by Proziam » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

RestlessMind wrote: post #580

Proziam wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that people think the D's and R's are dramatically different. They both have similar statist agendas just marketing themselves towards different demographics. Neither party has many any substantial effort to rebuild our infrastructure, develop genuine disaster preparedness, reduce tax burdens on the middle class, and so on. All of those things lead to what we're seeing now where the average person can'…

I see that you are being downvoted, but I do agree with some of your points. > people think the D's and R's are dramatically different This is so true. Let's ignore fringe topics like Green New Deal or White Supremacy and look at what the mainstream portions of the parties are debating about - abortion, transgender rights etc. But what are the key differences between tax policy or curtailing corporate powers or entan…

The upvotes/downvotes I get are weird to watch because there's so much apparent disagreement and very little dialogue. This is the case on anything I post that takes a more 'conservative' stance.

> the mainstream portions of the parties are debating about - abortion, transgender rights etc.

I sometimes call these the clickbait issues. They get the most public attention but affect people's daily lives the least. Of course, that statement is going to upset some people because they will not immediately consider the net effect of trans rights legislation in comparison to taxes / corporate lawmaking / warfare / international trade.

Worse, some people take statements like the above and think that I don't want all humans to have truly equal rights, which I do.

> they happily bailed out the Wall Street without punishing a single banker for the crash of 2008

Very true. I've seen many people (including on this forum, which is better educated than average) make statements to the effect of 'democrats are better for the economy' without considering the fact that both parties have been complicit in creating and maintaining the systems that have led to massive government debt and economic collapses.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#633

Post by shreyansj » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

thatguy0900 wrote: post #614

shreyansj wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if everyone had stayed locked in for 6 weeks and if that had prevented 50000 deaths, how is that not worth it?

How could that possibly have happened? Food needs to be planted, harvested(in many situations primarily by migratory workers from other countries) and delivered, power needs to be kept up, necessary medical supplies needs manufactoring, water needs to be cleaned and delivered. There's no scenario where the world gets to collectively take a break

Right, but the world could have refrained from partying on the beaches [1]

[1] - https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/07/16/vacati...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#634

Post by adolph » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

shreyansj wrote: post #571

marcell wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we didn't follow through with the lockdown nationally to actually stomp the virus This statement implies that there's a way to completely eradicate the virus, eg. if everyone in the world stays locked in their homes for 6 weeks, then the virus will be eradicated. That's not realistic, the level of coordination required to make that happen does not exist. So eradicating the virus was never on the table, no matter ho…

But if everyone had stayed locked in for 6 weeks and if that had prevented 50000 deaths, how is that not worth it?

It depends on the denominator. There is no free lunch. If there is an estimate for death prevention, what is the estimated cost in lives?

Given that death is a certainty for all, how many lost person-days do the 50k deaths represent? Since the lock down means no normal activities such as routine doctor visits, how many person-days would be lost due to undetected illness or delayed treatment?

Staying locked in is a strategy for preventing excess deaths from overwhelming a health system. It isn't a long term strategy for eliminating all virus related death.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#635

Post by shreyansj » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:18 PM UTC

marcell wrote: post #612

shreyansj wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if everyone had stayed locked in for 6 weeks and if that had prevented 50000 deaths, how is that not worth it?

I'm not sure if it's worth it or not, but after you end the lockdown, you have the same situation you did at the start of the lockdown. I think there's a huge misconception in many media sources that lockdown will somehow eliminate the virus. It can change the onset pattern of the virus, but that's it.

It's amazing to wonder whether any step, any inconvenience is worth saving even lives when the magnitude of that is in the thousands. Countries have literally been bombed over far fewer deaths.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#636

Post by stainforth » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:20 PM UTC

Oxx wrote: post #189

eaandkw wrote: post #150

I have pretty much given up on everybody at this point. I have already pulled my kid from school and will not send them back. I am in a single income family and I am now working from home. All actions and purchases at this point are to help us to become more independant from the system. Society and government at large has shown itself to be unreliable and undependable. I am also making longer term plans to move out o…

Good. The current state of the world is incredibly unnatural when you compare it to even 50 years ago. Everything is too connected. We are so much more efficient, but so much more fragile. The best thing you can do to save the world is save yourself and your family. Less fragility, more robustness at the personal / local level. I am mid twenties, and was homeschooled my entire childhood. My father owned a technology…

Can your dad take every other kid to work with him too?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#637

Post by japhyr » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:21 PM UTC

jmcqk6 wrote: post #623

WalterBright wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public schools are run by the states. Look to your governor.

The public schools are only one part of our civilization. The ineffectual and incompetent national response has left no good options on the table for public schools. No matter what happens now, we're sacrificing some children because the assholes in power couldn't be bothered to care about things other than themselves.

Right. Even if one community comes up with a really good plan, we still have interstate travel in a nation with numerous states whose governors are actively against any mitigating actions on a local level. So no, we can't just "look to our governors".

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#638

Post by pgrote » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #333

MattGaiser wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even on the outside, it seems like pushing kids back into the classroom is poorly thought out. I can't imagine the shitshow it must seem like on the inside.

The problem is, remote education has been a complete disaster. I know a few teachers. Apparently their students found out that the state was unwilling to hold anyone back a year during the pandemic, they shared this information with each other, and now a substantial amount of them are not doing any work. In some classes, more than half the students are permanently absent! Either their parents don't know, or don't car…

>The problem is, remote education has been a complete disaster.

Speaking from a USA perspective, no, it was a complete shit show. And you know what? That is fine.

Our school district went from completely normal one day to remote learning the next. Huge swing in what to do and how to do it. There were no plans for a global pandemic. School districts learned quickly there were external factors affecting everyone's life at the same time. Parents losing jobs, food insecurity, child anxiety. All at once.

School districts eased up. Remote learning went quickly from trying to dive into things to one on one check ins to group hellos. The semester started winding down. Everyone passed and moved on.

Now, we're in the fall. School districts had months to prepare for an effective remote learning strategy. Let's see what happens.

(Between you, me and the tree, it's not going to go well, either.)

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#639

Post by watwut » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

electriclove wrote: post #627

marcell wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really clear they are having better results. I don't know what the numbers are out of China, but certainly in Europe they had really big outbreaks in Italy, France, the UK, Spain, and other places as well. Their outcomes are pretty similar, in terms of deaths per capita, to the United States. I think most media outlets are over-emphasizing the impact of government interventions, and under-emphasizing the imp…

No place in the world is handling this as poorly as we have. Well.. maybe Brazil?

What about Iran?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#640

Post by selectodude » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #631

marcell wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really clear they are having better results. I don't know what the numbers are out of China, but certainly in Europe they had really big outbreaks in Italy, France, the UK, Spain, and other places as well. Their outcomes are pretty similar, in terms of deaths per capita, to the United States. I think most media outlets are over-emphasizing the impact of government interventions, and under-emphasizing the imp…

> Their outcomes are pretty similar, in terms of deaths per capita, to the United States. Except that they are all now on downward trajectories while being more open (as opposed to the US, which is on an upward trajectory). Travel is allowed in Europe. Schools are open. Bars are open. And they are still on a downward trajectory.

And furthermore, there are locations in the United States that have handled the virus pretty well and are powerless to stop people from coming up there and messing it all up.

“Mike, from Old Town, who did not want to share his last name, ordered a vodka Red Bull before getting back in line with friends at Old Crow Smokehouse’s curbside bar. He had just gotten back from a vacation in Dallas, Texas, with a friend, where he left a day early due to the spike in cases and the state’s rolling back on its openings.

“[It feels] like I’m the problem,” he said with a nervous laugh as he talked about being out and about amid the pandemic. Looking around at the throngs of people drinking and walking around Wrigleyville, he said it is concerning.”

What the hell are we supposed to do about that with zero national plan? All the local shutdowns in the world are useless unless we can put the interstate commerce clause on hold for a bit.