Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#431

Post by jdminhbg » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

ciarannolan wrote: post #351

QuercusMax wrote: post #311

In Santa Clara County, CA (Silicon Valley), a group of 40 principals got together in person a few weeks back to discuss reopening plans. And they got COVID. Is it any wonder that teachers don't trust that they will be kept safe?

These "it's a hoax until it happens to me" stories are super common in the US. >Former game show host Chuck Woolery announced Wednesday his son has tested positive for COVID-19, just days after Woolery accused medical professionals and Democrats of lying about the virus in an effort to hurt the economy and President Trump's reelection chances. >Woolery, who hosted several popular game shows including "Love Connection…

These "it was a hoax until happened to me" stories are super commonly hoaxes in the US, as well: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/did-the-times-print-an...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#432

Post by slowhand09 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #258

Oxx wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. The current state of the world is incredibly unnatural when you compare it to even 50 years ago. Everything is too connected. We are so much more efficient, but so much more fragile. The best thing you can do to save the world is save yourself and your family. Less fragility, more robustness at the personal / local level. I am mid twenties, and was homeschooled my entire childhood. My father owned a technology…

I don't think homeschooling is usually like you're describing. Most of the people I have met who were homeschooled were not social adjusted or developed and didn't seem 'normal' by most standards. Most of them had parents who were either extremely religious or some other ideological tendency (survivalist, etc).

My nephews kids are homeschooled. They have a rigorous curriculum, specific goals, etc. They also have regular socialization activity with other homeschoolers. They just choose to not settle for the mediocrity, nor accept the indoctrination pushed by the education system.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#433

Post by glitcher » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #71

devalgo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>may be far worse than the consequences of reopening. Let's be perfectly clear, this isn't something abstract. The consequences are dead kids and dead teachers. Get that through your head. You of course imagine it won't be your kids that die but there's absolutely no reason to think that.

> Let's be perfectly clear, this isn't something abstract. The consequences are dead kids Yes, the serious risk of increases in childhood “morbidity and mortality” if schools remain closed are exactly what the American Academy of Pediatrics cited as a key consideration when strongly urging that planning center on a return to in-person schooling with the start of the coming school year.

Yes, and then the American Academy of Pediatrics announced a revised statement that included:

"Returning to school is important for the healthy development and well-being of children, but we must pursue re-opening in a way that is safe for all students, teachers and staff. Science should drive decision-making on safely reopening schools. Public health agencies must make recommendations based on evidence, not politics. We should leave it to health experts to tell us when the time is best to open up school buildings, and listen to educators and administrators to shape how we do it."

Bottom line IMO is that these decisions need to be made locally. There is no one-size-fits-all for schools across the country. And sadly there will also be other significant negative consequences for some kids who can't go back to school yet. We should be attacking these issues on multiple fronts with multiple strategies, using strong leadership, increased funding, and careful planning instead of rushing into a situation we are unprepared for.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by marta_morena_25 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

ghufran_syed wrote: post #319

thephyber wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but its a good kind of weird. This isn't guaranteed. A counterexample is Tara Westover[1] who grew up in an extremist version of what you are describing. She ultimately became successful but it was mostly despite her parents isolation from "the system", not because of them. [1] https://www.npr.org/2018/02/20/587244230/memoirist-retraces-...

In what education system are outcomes guaranteed? The story you linked to is pretty interesting, but she clearly states she was allowed to learn (just not forced to), she obviously understood what a university was, and had the desire and ability to apply and be accepted to university at an age when her parents would have had the legal right to stop her if they so wished - they obviously supported her application. Her…

This story is fascinating (you really should read the whole book). But using her as example is completely misleading. She is a genius (I think). Very similar to the movie "Good Will Hunting". She got accepted into Cambridge with little to no education whatsoever. Even if you are a genius, this is not easy, since you just have to understand the system to some extend, no matter how smart you are, to be accepted into it.

Suffices to say, millions would fail under similar conditions, where she succeeded. Odds in normal education are much better than that.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#435

Post by cheschire » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

seniorgarcia wrote: post #320

hosh wrote: post #177

For the teachers whose calling is teaching, I can see them moving to this part-time: https://outschool.com My wife and I were concerned about our daughter getting isolated. We don't want her on social media, but we do think it is important for her to connect with her affinity group, and explore her passions. I found out about outschool recently, and it looked like exactly what we needed to address this. The classes a…

So, keeping my child engaged for 5 days a week would cost about 150$ and 45$ go to the platform (judging from glancing over class duration/classes per week and cost). Can somebody tell me what value outschool adds aside from being an agency?

What's wrong with the only value being an agency? Do you not approve of B2B generally speaking?

If teachers didn't have a service like this to use, they would each have to find their own way to attract the attention of potential students.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by mynameisvlad » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #419

not2b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is a consequence of ideologies that have become popular in the US both in politics and in business. Having government direct a mobilization is not acceptable. A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Having manufacturing capacity to make low-value products in large numbers in the US is bad business when poorer countries can do it for less. Having spare inventory is bad, because just-in-time man…

> A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Personally speaking I'm all good with wearing a mask if they let me out of my house. The Shelter in place thing has been such an overreaction that I'm kind of primed to rebel just because I'm so incensed by the violation of rights... Wearing a mask is like requiring wearing a seatbelt. Shelter in place is like saying no one can drive except a few exceptionals.

I don't believe there are any states currently issuing stay at home (which is different than SIP) orders.

It also has 100% not been an overreaction. It saved countless lives by preventing spread. That whole flattening the curve thing and how well countries that have actually followed through and did not open early should show you how effective it has been.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by rorykoehler » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #304

not2b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is a consequence of ideologies that have become popular in the US both in politics and in business. Having government direct a mobilization is not acceptable. A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Having manufacturing capacity to make low-value products in large numbers in the US is bad business when poorer countries can do it for less. Having spare inventory is bad, because just-in-time man…

> Now, all of this could be turned around quickly with good leadership that could rally the country behind a cause, but we chose someone who... Were all of these issues nonexistent under prior administrations? Or, as for turning it around, are you asserting that Clinton both could have and would have done so? If so, how do you know this?

Clinton isn’t incompetent with a long list of failures behind her name. I despise her but to think that she wouldn’t have been better at handling the pandemic response than Trump is delusional.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Post by sfteus » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

Kapura wrote: post #13

My mother is an elementary school teacher, and I don't want her to go back to school this year. The federal government is worse than useless, and the state government is feckless and unwilling to make the tough calls to protect people's lives. She's been a teacher for ~15 years and still makes less than $30k a year teaching. She loves helping the kids, but her life isn't worth it.

My mom works as an administrator in a public school. She is one year away from being eligible for medicaid, which is when she planned on retiring. She said as of right now, she plans to go back, because getting private insurance with her pre-existing conditions for the next year isn't feasible. I'm seriously considering seeing if my siblings and I can fund it for her for a year so she can just retire now and not have to worry about her as much.

A few other school districts around us have cancelled their in-person plans, at least for a few months, so hopefully her district does the same.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#439

Post by cheschire » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #238

Kapura wrote: post #13

My mother is an elementary school teacher, and I don't want her to go back to school this year. The federal government is worse than useless, and the state government is feckless and unwilling to make the tough calls to protect people's lives. She's been a teacher for ~15 years and still makes less than $30k a year teaching. She loves helping the kids, but her life isn't worth it.

> The federal government is worse than useless, The federal government has no jurisdiction over education. The only exception to that is the civil rights (Brown v. Board of Education) and it's quite limited in scope. COVID is certainly out of scope. The presidential talk about it is just that - talk. https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/ed/17/08/when-it-comes-educ...

It has no jurisdiction, but certainly has influence using strongarm financial tactics.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#440

Post by rayiner » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:50 PM UTC

not2b wrote: post #230

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

All of this is a consequence of ideologies that have become popular in the US both in politics and in business. Having government direct a mobilization is not acceptable. A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Having manufacturing capacity to make low-value products in large numbers in the US is bad business when poorer countries can do it for less. Having spare inventory is bad, because just-in-time man…

We’re not a “country.” We’re 50 different states with a federal government, which doesn’t have public health as one of its assigned roles.

This isn’t an ideological point, it’s a bare recitation of fact. Somehow, other federal republics like Germany managed to engage in an effective pandemic response while leaving most of the work to the states. For example, while Germany eventually had a mask order everywhere, the states all implemented them at different times. School reopening was all done on different schedules with different procedures. Merkel didn’t issue a national mask order, for the same reason Trump didn’t: she wasn’t legally allowed to.

This was not a surprise. Nobody thought pandemic response was mainly a federal responsibility. States, particularly New York, were just completely unprepared for a job they knew was theirs.

So I agree ideologies are the problem, but this is a problematic ideology too. Why would people use a pandemic to try and relitigate the basic structure of our government? Why can’t we just work within the system to solve problems?