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Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#391

Post by dragonwriter »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #339
dragonwriter wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the votes of people in certain states being more valuable than those in others is also true of the House and Senate. In fact, the inequity in voting power produced by the Electoral College is a direct consequence of that in the structure of the House and Senate, since the latter is apportioned simply (except for DC) by adding the apportionment of House and Senate seats.

It is (mostly) not true of the House. Yes, some states have House seats that represent somewhat fewer people than some other states. I suppose, technically, that means the votes in that state are "more valuable". It's far different from the Senate, though.

> It is (mostly) not true of the House.

It's absolutely true of the House, though because of granularity rather than fixed representation, so it's not simply smaller-states-are-overrepresented. (But instead smaller states have the most variable representation.)

> Yes, some states have House seats that represent somewhat fewer people than some other states

“Somewhat fewer” in the sense that 527,000 (Rhode Island) is “somewhat fewer” than 994,000 (Montana), but, while it's a narrower range than the Senate (65.7:1) or EC (3.59:1), 1.88:1 isn't a close ratio.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#392

Post by mynameisvlad »

greesil wrote: post #377
mistermann wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, all of this could be turned around quickly with good leadership that could rally the country behind a cause, but we chose someone who... Were all of these issues nonexistent under prior administrations? Or, as for turning it around, are you asserting that Clinton both could have and would have done so? If so, how do you know this?

Interdimensional cable. You can't prove that I don't have it. Ask yourself this, could the current administration's response have been better given what was known at the time? If the answer is emphatically yes, then perhaps another person is better suited for the job.

Why is this even a discussion we're having? Yes, literally anybody would have had a better response than what we got. Just looking at the current state of the US vs practically any other country in the world shows how cripplingly bad the response has been from the current administration.

Sometimes, I really hate the people in this country.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#393

Post by dmart »

marvin wrote: post #22
engineer_22 wrote: post #11

It's too late to put the genie back in the bottle. Whether we like it or not we're going with the Sweden Model. I've got school age kids myself, and I understand the risk. This is going to be a situation that could become hard to manage but our society's economy is constructed in such a way that relies on daytime programming for children and teens outside of their home. The teachers are going to have to help bear the…

Or maybe they'll choose not to. It's a market economy. Maybe $30k per year isn't worth risking the life of one's family.

Maybe 30k isn't worth it, but when your entire family's access to (non-financially-ruinous) health care is held hostage by your employer, it's a harder decision to make.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#394

Post by RestlessMind »

not2b wrote: post #230
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

All of this is a consequence of ideologies that have become popular in the US both in politics and in business. Having government direct a mobilization is not acceptable. A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Having manufacturing capacity to make low-value products in large numbers in the US is bad business when poorer countries can do it for less. Having spare inventory is bad, because just-in-time man…

> Having government direct a mobilization is not acceptable.

Then you would expect divergent performance in the D-controlled states (eg. California) vs the R-controlled states (eg. Texas), no? So far, I see all types of states having similar outcomes.

> ... good leadership ... but we chose someone who is committed to division, ...

I'm no fan of our current leader, but let's be honest Obama failed to properly launch a simple website for his signature initiative[1]. The problem is much deeper.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HealthCare.gov#Issues_during_l...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#395

Post by sfteus »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #297
not2b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is a consequence of ideologies that have become popular in the US both in politics and in business. Having government direct a mobilization is not acceptable. A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Having manufacturing capacity to make low-value products in large numbers in the US is bad business when poorer countries can do it for less. Having spare inventory is bad, because just-in-time man…

So you think it would be better under a different political leader? I think it’s great that you’re still such an optimist

If you're trying to tell me that you think we wouldn't be better off with a leader that said this was a present and real threat and put out a mandatory mask order back in Feb/March, shut down travel and enforced travel quarantines, used the Defense Production Act to create and deliver PPE where needed, didn't confiscate PPE from states and re-sell it to the highest bidder, didn't publicly contradict the pandemic response team and CDC, implemented an effective national testing and contact tracing strategy, etc, then I'd say you're not here for an honest dialogue.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#396

Post by asadkn »

nickysielicki wrote: post #82
leetrout wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong statement: dumb kids are better than dead kids.

There are 74 million children CDC says that 1.7% of COVID cases belong to children. [2] Among children, CDC says 1.8% of cases required hospitalization. [2] >>> 74000000*0.017*0.018 A dumb kid is better than a dead kid, I agree. But are 74M dumber kids worth less than 25000 ICU visits in the entire country? [1]: https://www.childtrends.org/indicators/number-of-children [2]: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm69…

But those are tunnel vision stats only considering one variable.

It's the parents that will be at risk.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#397

Post by jm1234567890 »

QuercusMax wrote: post #311

In Santa Clara County, CA (Silicon Valley), a group of 40 principals got together in person a few weeks back to discuss reopening plans. And they got COVID. Is it any wonder that teachers don't trust that they will be kept safe?

https://www.mercurynews.com/santa-clara-school-leaders-quara... it says there was no transmission

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#398

Post by mikeg8 »

vb6sp6 wrote: post #290
Phillips126 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having three young kids myself and a parent who is a teacher, I know how "gross" kids are first hand. >Neither she nor the children are allowed to wear masks or gloves. I understand why the children won't be wearing any PPE - my 3yo would never keep a mask on for more than 15 minutes. Why is your Wife not allowed to at minimum wear a mask?

because masks are now a political statement and some administrators are republicans

Has there been any districts/states/counties that have strictly forbid teachers from choosing to wear a mask?? I'm unaware of this but would find it terribly cruel.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#399

Post by thaumaturgy »

nickff wrote: post #220
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

If you want an increase in mask supply, you have to either allow the pricing mechanism to do its job, or force people to make masks. Given the (very popular) laws against price gauging, it seems like the only viable option is to force some companies to manufacture more masks. Production capacity is available, but at a higher cost than is currently economical. All that being said, your second point seems correct to me…

HN really needs to be more aggressively critical of comments like these, that try to construct arguments on ideological foundations without any deeper investigation of the relevant facts.

First, production capacity is not available, as the VP of Prestige Ameritech tried to explain to everyone months ago [1]. The equipment required to manufacture suitable PPE is big and expensive and there isn't enough demand to offset the capital or the maintenance costs for the equipment, except when there's suddenly a pandemic and everyone wants PPE yesterday.

Despite this, Prestige Ameritech -- having foreseen this scenario a long time ago and spent over a decade begging different administrations to prepare for it -- offered to ramp up production early this year. The Trump administration said no [2]. The issue has now been made even worse with everything reopening nationally, which has not only caused a huge spike in hospital demand for PPE, but has also caused a huge spike in demand for masks specifically [same article].

And these are just the immediate, short-term, direct issues that should be easy for outsiders to grasp. There are many other related, harder-to-solve problems:

> The blame, experts agreed, goes beyond any single person or agency but is the culmination of decades of change in the nation’s manufacturing capabilities, a worldwide shift in how goods are delivered and the country’s long battle with medical costs. Warnings about how these factors set the stage for shortages during a worst-case scenario went unheeded, leaving the country unprepared for a pandemic.

> By the time the coronavirus arrived, it was too late. The nation was left with massive shortages and a ruptured supply chain that won’t be an easy fix. [3]

Furthermore, prices did rise dramatically, and -- gasp! -- this did not magically fix the supply chain [4].

Allowing unregulated price gouging would not (and did not) change the supply shortage. It would have just been a pinata party in the shape of the US, and would have left front line medical workers without necessary PPE while wealthy people hoarded supplies.

An effective, less corrupt federal government could have dramatically increased PPE supply just by taking the pandemic seriously at the start and putting competent people with relevant expertise in charge of oversight and response. There still would have been shortages, but they would have been far less severe and they would largely have been resolved by now.

[1]: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/05/8113874...

[2]: https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/7/10/21319960/n95-masks-shor...

[3]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/07/01/coronavirus-u...

[4]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/05/21/why-dont-h...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#400

Post by blisseyGo »

Media has done a great job at fear mongering. People aren't realizing that kids not being able to go to school means the child abuse numbers are through the roof and they aren't even getting caught or reported. There are safe ways of achieving schooling without putting older teachers at risk.
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