Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#231

Post by doopy-loopy2 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #210

doopy-loopy2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deaths in children are essentially 0

My niece was born with a defective kidney. Her chances of dialysis grows with every infection... and COVID19 has been shown to cause long-term damage to kidneys and livers. I'd expect my niece to survive COVID19 if she got it. But I'd also expect her to get significant kidney damage and possibly dialysis as a result. Every UTI she gets results in an emergency room visit under normal circumstances. We've been lucky en…

Then she can stay home - 99.99% of children wont have issues.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#232

Post by kenned3 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

Kapura wrote: post #13

My mother is an elementary school teacher, and I don't want her to go back to school this year. The federal government is worse than useless, and the state government is feckless and unwilling to make the tough calls to protect people's lives. She's been a teacher for ~15 years and still makes less than $30k a year teaching. She loves helping the kids, but her life isn't worth it.

Move to Canada, our teachers are paid 86K (CAD) or around 63K USD.

"Teachers in the province earn an average salary of around $86,000, according to data provided by Ontario's Ministry of Education. Only in Alberta are average teacher salaries higher, around $89,000"

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#233

Post by not2b » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #220

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

If you want an increase in mask supply, you have to either allow the pricing mechanism to do its job, or force people to make masks. Given the (very popular) laws against price gauging, it seems like the only viable option is to force some companies to manufacture more masks. Production capacity is available, but at a higher cost than is currently economical. All that being said, your second point seems correct to me…

That's why we have mechanisms like the Defense Production Act. Under normal circumstances the free market works well, but sometimes in a crisis it isn't enough. We are in a crisis.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#234

Post by doopy-loopy2 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

yboris wrote: post #136

doopy-loopy2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deaths in children are essentially 0

Children are some of the best disease vectors. In many schools, they easily come in contact with 100 other children. When the child is sick with a disease, they bring it home. Now the parents are exposed.

This has actually not shown to be true.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#235

Post by harimau777 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #194

Kapura wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's in Colorado. The teachers' union agreed to a pay cut & freeze during the Bush financial crisis; pay had had only started to rise again a few years ago. This is somewhat of a digression, but the extremely low rate of teacher pay (for a job that requires a Master's degree) limits the pool of available teachers greatly. The people taking these jobs typically must have some other way of supporting their family; eit…

> for a job that requires a Master's degree Unless there's some regulation in Colorado that doesn't exist in New York, teaching does not require a master's degree. It does require specific training and certification, but there are undergraduate programs that offer this. There are also master's programs, they just aren't required.

I don't know about Colorado, but apparently in Ohio it's needed "to earn the highest level of certification".

https://www.teachingdegree.org/states/ohio/#:~:text=Generall....

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#236

Post by doopy-loopy2 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

newfeatureok wrote: post #65

doopy-loopy2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm OK with giving teachers the choice not to return - but they should absolutely NOT be getting paid. And those who want to work can do so.

This doesn't make any sense - it's possible to teach children remotely. It is not possible to be a nurse remotely. The two situations are not remotely (pun intended) similar.

lol. stop trying to make "remote everything" happen. It's not gonna happen regardless of how badly you want it to.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#237

Post by pkaye » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

leetrout wrote: post #122

Kapura wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's in Colorado. The teachers' union agreed to a pay cut & freeze during the Bush financial crisis; pay had had only started to rise again a few years ago. This is somewhat of a digression, but the extremely low rate of teacher pay (for a job that requires a Master's degree) limits the pool of available teachers greatly. The people taking these jobs typically must have some other way of supporting their family; eit…

> There is no good economic argument made to become an elementary school teacher. AMEN. I would NEVER recommend ANYONE become a teacher based on my wife's experiences. You used to be able to write off expenses as "non-reimbursed employee expenses" but they cut that out so teachers get the token $200 writeoff. We spend almost 10x that annually supporting her in the classroom. It really is glorified day care in most pe…

I think those writeoffs were removed in the 2018 tax laws so the Republicans can give rich people a tax break yet balance the budget.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#238

Post by DenisM » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

Kapura wrote: post #13

My mother is an elementary school teacher, and I don't want her to go back to school this year. The federal government is worse than useless, and the state government is feckless and unwilling to make the tough calls to protect people's lives. She's been a teacher for ~15 years and still makes less than $30k a year teaching. She loves helping the kids, but her life isn't worth it.

> The federal government is worse than useless,

The federal government has no jurisdiction over education. The only exception to that is the civil rights (Brown v. Board of Education) and it's quite limited in scope. COVID is certainly out of scope.

The presidential talk about it is just that - talk.

https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/ed/17/08/when-it-comes-educ...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#239

Post by malandrew » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

cheerlessbog wrote: post #31

Kapura wrote: post #13

My mother is an elementary school teacher, and I don't want her to go back to school this year. The federal government is worse than useless, and the state government is feckless and unwilling to make the tough calls to protect people's lives. She's been a teacher for ~15 years and still makes less than $30k a year teaching. She loves helping the kids, but her life isn't worth it.

Where does she work that pays $30k for an experienced teacher? Teacher pay sucks

The sad part is that it isn't like there isn't a budget to pay teachers more. We spend more per kid than we ever have, but now any budget increases get absorbed by growth in the administration. Administration in education and healthcare is a cancer.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#240

Post by csb6 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

tathougies wrote: post #199

Wonderful. If they stay employed, we have to pay their salaries, despite not receiving any kind of education for America's children. We can't fire them, due to the union. But if they quit, we achieve everything -- tax payers save money for something they are not getting, and the funds can be used to educate children (Perhaps by direct payments to parents for use in hiring private tutors, or whatever).

This comment shows an astounding lack of anything resembling human empathy. Teachers do not want to return to work because the outbreak is getting worse in many places, and the already underpaid job of being a teacher would become even more dangerous. Ask any teacher (especially grade school) during normal times: they get sick constantly, and kids constantly pass around colds/the flu. In AZ, the emergency room ICUs are so full that patients are having to be flown to New Mexico. Huh, I wonder why teachers are concerned. Probably just union BS.

America’s children not receiving education isn’t the fault of teachers. It is the fault of a failed state that is unable to protect public health. Instead, you (and probably a large portion of older, affluent Americans) will celebrate as our already underpaid teachers are forced to seek other work rather than kill their students/families. Before the pandemic, many teachers in my district were forced to work second jobs (e.g. at restaurants). This is a breaking point.

America has truly lost any sense of community solidarity or just the barest altruism. Everything has become individualized and treated like a business cost that needs to be cut off like some sort of tumor in order to boost some shitty education startups that is “innovative” or “focused on shareholder value” or some shit. Teachers have an interest in not seeing their students/students’ families die, so it seems pretty obvious why they would be reluctant to pack a bunch of children in a classroom setting. But hey, maybe we can all create tutoring startups and unbundle public education into 40 SaaS apps.