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SAS Rescue 3 Trapped British Diplomats in Albania

mydiplomaticlife.com

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Re: SAS Rescue 3 Trapped British Diplomats in Albania

#81
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is his bio: http://cmarshall.com/miscellaneous/MikeMarshall.htm

Fascinating, thanks for sharing that. FYI the last link on that page, for the faith thing, seems to be a domain farm or scam or something now.

Found it. It moved to GU: https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/wfdd

Thanks!

Re: SAS Rescue 3 Trapped British Diplomats in Albania

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were able to do so because of diplomatic decision making. They landed a transport plane on an airport. That's not a feat of military might. It's one of having the same blue/yellow emblem somewhere on your plane as on the 10.5 million cartons of infant nutrition you distributed the year before. Some "shots over their heads" may have been useful in discouraging individual idiots. But the only reason there was anyb…

Wow commentators on Hacker News will even dismiss the work of the Special Air Service as 'not being that big a deal when you think about'.

Why do you interpret this as dismissive? Everyone I've ever met in the military seemed quite aware and respectful of their role in a larger system--they want people who understand chain of command, not cowboys, even more so than other large organizations.

That system likely provided these SAS operators both with direct support here (like briefings on what route to take travelling, who would and wouldn't be hostile, etc.), and with the indirect support inherent in anyone who hoped to end up controlling Albania not wanting the British as an enemy. I'd guess the operators felt appreciation for that support and pride in their own contributions to that system, and no diminution of their individual achievements.

Re: SAS Rescue 3 Trapped British Diplomats in Albania

#83
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, a very good case to learn from for people saying "such things can't happen" in a modern civil state country. Albania is of course not the best examples of a "Western" country, but it is far more than, say, what ex-Soviet states were. Imagine a few big banks falling in the same manner in a particularly low point for ones country. In a few breakdowns of civil states so far, since the WW2, the prime majority fel…

Is Albania considered a western country at all? I never thought of it as such.

Albania has been a member of NATO since 2009, and (just this year) has begun negotiations to join the EU.

Not every "Western" country is a NATO member, but NATO members are usually counted as "Western". Similarly, EU member states generally count as "Western", and a country formally negotiating to join the EU probably falls in that bucket too.

Turkey is possibly the big exception to the generalisations that "NATO member"="Western" and "negotiating to join the EU"="Western". However, Turkey used to have much more of a pro-Western orientation when it was ruled for decades by secular nationalists. It is only in the last 20 or so years, with Turkey being ruled by the religiously conservative AKP, that Turkey has been moving away from a "Western" identity. But Albania's politics are very different from those of Turkey. Albania's politics are dominated by secular parties. While both Turkey and Albania are majority Muslim, the kind of religious conservatism which is the driving force behind the current Turkish government is far less popular among Albanians.

Re: SAS Rescue 3 Trapped British Diplomats in Albania

#84
post #64
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Albania is of course not the best examples of a "Western" country, but it is far more than, say, what ex-Soviet states were I'm not sure if I'd fully agree with that characterization. Sure, the Balkans as a whole had bit their own thing going on (probably can thank Tito for that), but Albania was still ruled by iron-handed communist regime and at least based on surface reading seemed to be deeper in the (Stalinist/…

> Albania was still ruled by iron-handed communist regime and at least based on surface reading seemed to be deeper in the (Stalinist/Communist) ideology than many others, including post-Stalin Soviet Union. I don't understand this part given that the rest of your post, and the article you link, makes it clear that they had transitioned out of communism 6 years previously. But yeah they were still terribly poor and p…

They may have transitioned from communism, but communism leaves psychological scars (or rather adaptations) which are passed on for generations through culture. The nature of authoritarian socialism is such that it breeds mistrust and selfishness in private.

Re: SAS Rescue 3 Trapped British Diplomats in Albania

#85
post #64
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Albania is of course not the best examples of a "Western" country, but it is far more than, say, what ex-Soviet states were I'm not sure if I'd fully agree with that characterization. Sure, the Balkans as a whole had bit their own thing going on (probably can thank Tito for that), but Albania was still ruled by iron-handed communist regime and at least based on surface reading seemed to be deeper in the (Stalinist/…

> Albania was still ruled by iron-handed communist regime and at least based on surface reading seemed to be deeper in the (Stalinist/Communist) ideology than many others, including post-Stalin Soviet Union. I don't understand this part given that the rest of your post, and the article you link, makes it clear that they had transitioned out of communism 6 years previously. But yeah they were still terribly poor and p…

The quote was referring to the pre transition period, related to how Albanians were in immediate past living in a more authoritarian system than even the SU. And hence were pretty far from a western country culturally.

Quote from the GP linked article:" Capitalism ran amok, transforming Tirana into a 20th-century version of Dodge City, filled with gun-toting lawmen, abrasive money-changers and tough guys dressed in leather."

Re: SAS Rescue 3 Trapped British Diplomats in Albania

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow commentators on Hacker News will even dismiss the work of the Special Air Service as 'not being that big a deal when you think about'.

Why do you interpret this as dismissive? Everyone I've ever met in the military seemed quite aware and respectful of their role in a larger system--they want people who understand chain of command, not cowboys, even more so than other large organizations. That system likely provided these SAS operators both with direct support here (like briefings on what route to take travelling, who would and wouldn't be hostile, e…

Yes, thanks. I was in no way trying to dismiss these soldiers' professionalism.

I was, however, dismissive of HN warriors with World-War 3 lingo of "hot zones" and "threat vectors" and "secondary actors", tom-clancying their way to such magnificient insights as:

> Going into any hot zone as a small squad is always a big deal

Re: SAS Rescue 3 Trapped British Diplomats in Albania

#87

I spent a week in Albania last year and my experience couldn't be more opposite (obviously there's no civil war on at the moment). I love the place and it's mostly because of the people. Never have I met more friendly laid back and helpful people. For example, my airbnb host that I stayed with, for all of 2 nights, kept my large suitcase so I could spend the week in the south with just my carry-on bag. When I got bac…

It's pretty comical to compare your tourist visit to Albania last year against a Special Air Service operation during a civil war 23 years ago.

He did say "obviously theres no civil war at the moment". Why do you feel the need to argue bro? On albanian geopolitics nonetheless, go drink a beer or something.

Re: SAS Rescue 3 Trapped British Diplomats in Albania

#88
post #39

You can tell that they're well seasoned professional troops by the fact that they were comfortable enough to stop and get pizza.

Albanian here, want to clarify some things: 1. The situation was never that bad as the post makes.... It is similar to the current June events in the US (unrests/protests), but sans looting of random businesses, just burning of the PM office (instead of a police precinct). 2. That politician, was not killed by the government, but it is rumored (never verified) that he was setup by his rival leader of his own party. T…

When you're looking bad, of course it may not have been that bad, but if you're in the middle of it of course you may have a different experience.

And I understand what you're saying about treating foreign tourists well, but incidents happen regardless (the same as they could and do in every country).

Re: SAS Rescue 3 Trapped British Diplomats in Albania

#89

The reason for the "civil disturbance" in Albania in 1997-1998 is very interesting to study: the collapse of nation wide Ponzi schemes. Several different Albanian Ponzi schemes were basically marketing themselves as banks, and they were real legitimate businesses with IT employees and salesmen and everything. Eventually almost every Albanian had money tied up in these schemes in one way or another, and one by one the…

Rare Earth's Evan Hadfield did a great episode on this, "The Pyramid Scheme that Collapsed a Nation":

https://invidio.us/watch?v=lMUtU0tOmNE

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