New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads • Hacker News Board

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#211

Post by nfsdjkghewyuh » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

Wouldn't it make the least sense for advertisers to spend money showing ads to people who are already in the market for their product. Those people will probably be looking it up directly, which is what their website and SEO are there for. If anything contextual ads are probably better for people in the market, so when you search for their product they always appear in the first page of results.

I would think ads are meant to drive you into the market for a product and service, and other marketing tools are made to get you to pick a specific offering.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#212

Post by sosborn » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

nfsdjkghewyuh wrote: post #211

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

Wouldn't it make the least sense for advertisers to spend money showing ads to people who are already in the market for their product. Those people will probably be looking it up directly, which is what their website and SEO are there for. If anything contextual ads are probably better for people in the market, so when you search for their product they always appear in the first page of results. I would think ads are…

> Wouldn't it make the least sense for advertisers to spend money showing ads to people who are already in the market for their product

For manufacturers? Sure. But what about storefronts? Having the best price won't matter if no one knows about it.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#213

Post by elcomet » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:35 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

If I control the variables for personalization, yes. If I don't control them, then no.

For example websites could have variables like mental state (like knowing of you're depressed) and show you ads that could "work better" on you. I think this is unacceptable.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#214

Post by Terretta » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:36 PM UTC

eyesee wrote: post #159

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

I think contextual targeting is more than sufficient, and in fact is the only kind of advertisement that I would gauge is effective for my personal use. If I'm searching for a waffle iron, a restaurant to visit or a new car I expect to see relevant ads because that's exactly what I'm searching for. There's no need to violate my privacy by extrapolating my interests based on my site history. In fact this is what leads…

This is the key.

Major firms that switched from outsourced “personalized” ads (ad networks w/ retargeting) to selling ads against content, found their ad revenue go up, and their advertisers found conversions go up.

Turns out that 50 years of advertising industry had gotten pretty good at tailoring ad messaging and placement to content for moving product — much stronger than endlessly showing people ads for a product they just searched and already purchased.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#215

Post by jariel » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #25

jariel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These conversations are always so one-sided on HN. Not only is 're-targeting' immensely useful, it absolutely increases conversions. Targeting in general helps quite a lot. Ad targeting is the opposite of evil, it actually increases relevance by a significant degree, and increases market efficiency, wherein surpluses go to both sides. There's a huge market for products and services out there and it's getting harder t…

> Ad targeting is the opposite of evil, it actually increases relevance by a significant degree, and increases market efficiency, wherein surpluses go to both sides. There's a huge market for products and services out there and it's getting harder to connect individuals and products on the long tail. This is an optimistic viewpoint. It absolutely can happen like this, but it's not always the case. Ad targeting can de…

'Ads following you around' is actually necessarily a form of inefficiency, just the opposite. There may be a very good reason for you to see that specific ad, instead of and ad for some random for a pickup truck.

Consumer wariness does not translate to lack of surplus on their side. Products that truly provide no value tend to not find the light of day for long. It's actually the very last phase of 'demo/trial' or even 'trial post purchase' where customers really find out if they're going to like it, and most cases, the surplus goes to the consumer.

We live in a very different world than 100 years ago.

The value people get out of stuff they buy is immense - we live in a 'total surplus economy'. We get clean, cold/hot, drinkable water, in any volume - literally coming out of the wall. This is basically a 'magical product' to anyone in history. How much would people may monthly for potable water if we really wanted to increase the price? A lot. Possibly 10x more than they are paying now. That means all of the surplus of water has been socialised. For many other products, it's the same thing, the question for consumers boils down to 'where do we want to spend it'?

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#216

Post by DennisP » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

Non-personalized, because it's less likely to work on me. I don't want to be manipulated.

If I decide on my own to buy something, it won't be hard to find. I don't need to tell advertisers what I'm in the market for. I can just tell Google or Amazon what I want and I'll find it immediately, even though I'm blocking the ads.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#217

Post by dylan604 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

>But being the most popular mobile ecosystem

I keep seeing quote similar to this about Apple's iOS being so popular, yet the numbers clearly show that Android devices/users out number iOS. Are they saying that even with those numbers, Android is unpopular and people would rather be an iOS user? Is the price point whats preventing them?

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#218

Post by DCKing » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #89

raxxorrax wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, Android itself doesn't have to be horrible, but most distributions are full of adware. Wouldn't want to minimize the work going into the core of the OS, I meant the critique to be directed against Android + gapps. I love Lineage, but you are dependent on other maintainers for your device or you have serious work ahead of you. It is quite simple to install for experienced users, but way too complicated for most…

How about the elephant in the room? Radio firmwares. It is meaningless if you install firewalls, if you compile android on your own, only to have to turn around and use proprietary, closed source libs to access proprotary, closed source radio firmwares. Radio firmwares which often have full RAM access, parallel CPU control, GPS and full hardware access, and make intel's management engine, and closed source bioses loo…

Radio firmwares having full RAM access is an urban legend, at least on phones from the last 10 years. The baseband interface is actually done through a USB like protocol. The legend ticks all the boxes of privacy minded/distrusting people and so remains popular, but it's not substantiated by any facts, at least not facts that pertain to modern smartphones from the past 10 years.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#219

Post by nfsdjkghewyuh » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

sosborn wrote: post #212

nfsdjkghewyuh wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it make the least sense for advertisers to spend money showing ads to people who are already in the market for their product. Those people will probably be looking it up directly, which is what their website and SEO are there for. If anything contextual ads are probably better for people in the market, so when you search for their product they always appear in the first page of results. I would think ads are…

> Wouldn't it make the least sense for advertisers to spend money showing ads to people who are already in the market for their product For manufacturers? Sure. But what about storefronts? Having the best price won't matter if no one knows about it.

I was forgetting storefronts, they might benefit from knowing a user is in the market for a good or service.

My thinking (probably wrong) is, if I am in the market for (to use the example someone else mentioned) a pebble smartwatch then I am probably going to look for the best price myself. No reason for storefronts to spend money putting their ads with their price up on unrelated sites and apps, if I'm going to search for a good price for free. It would probably be better just to buy and ad on the search term "pebble smartwatch" and advertise the price.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#220

Post by kd913 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

To me it's more about trust regarding the data being gathered and what it is being used for. I care a lot more about how a company can misuse that personalized data to say sway an election.

If the data being gathered is purely to give me better recommendations for better targeted products then sure. If that level of personalization is restricted to just me as a user where I and only I can select the ad selection and that personalization remains on my machine.

The Facebook CA scandal demonstrates to me how frankly these companies are straight untrustworthy. I do not want political/security/insurance/job agencies getting anywhere near any of this data.