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Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#81

Post by devalgo »

dragonwriter wrote: post #71
devalgo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>may be far worse than the consequences of reopening. Let's be perfectly clear, this isn't something abstract. The consequences are dead kids and dead teachers. Get that through your head. You of course imagine it won't be your kids that die but there's absolutely no reason to think that.

> Let's be perfectly clear, this isn't something abstract. The consequences are dead kids Yes, the serious risk of increases in childhood “morbidity and mortality” if schools remain closed are exactly what the American Academy of Pediatrics cited as a key consideration when strongly urging that planning center on a return to in-person schooling with the start of the coming school year.

Appeal to authority, not a real argument.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#82

Post by nickysielicki »

leetrout wrote: post #18
_ea1k wrote: post #6

I feel like there is too much emphasis on these and not enough on the ones that earnestly want to go back to work. There should be a balance here, as we really do need a lot of students to have access to schools in the fall. Remote learning doesn't work for everyone and leaves a lot of people behind. The overall consequences of another lost semester may be far worse than the consequences of reopening.

Strong statement: dumb kids are better than dead kids.

There are 74 million children CDC says that 1.7% of COVID cases belong to children. [2]

Among children, CDC says 1.8% of cases required hospitalization. [2]

    >>> 74000000*0.017*0.018
A dumb kid is better than a dead kid, I agree. But are 74M dumber kids worth less than 25000 ICU visits in the entire country?

[1]: https://www.childtrends.org/indicators/number-of-children

[2]: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6914e4.htm

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#83

Post by bryanlarsen »

koop123 wrote: post #2

Maybe all nurses should quit, too.

I've heard medical professionals opine that they're safer at work than they are at the grocery store now that they have adequate PPE along with well designed and properly followed procedures.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#84

Post by 3pt14159 »

collegecamp293 wrote: post #70
3pt14159 wrote: post #3

This is exactly why all the people that said "choosing to protect life is also choosing to protect the economy" were right. It sucks, but people with savings can choose to quit over having to risk their lives. So if there is an appreciable risk (and associated hazard, which, for many of our older educators there is) then that is what is going to happen and you still get the disruptions to the economy.

Why are nurses and grocery workers working then? How are they less at risk than teachers?

I don't know if they're at more or less risk and I don't know the stats on how many of them have chosen not to work, but if I had to guess I'd say that nurses feel a sense of duty as part of their chosen line of work and that grocery workers are easier to replace for those that chose not to work.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#85

Post by newfeatureok »

lmilcin wrote: post #64
sl1ck731 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does delaying your school career 1 semester cause death? What debt? School debt? Are you talking about college? If you aren't attending school at all then you aren't adding to the debt (in most cases with Federal loans). If its online then you are still on track so I don't see your point.

We are talking about large number of people. On average this would take away half a year of their productive life. Nowadays, many people have a plan which is mostly: finish school, get a job based on the education. It is not difficult to see that if you set back financially large number of people, suddenly, this might increase suicide rate, for example. Or may make them worse off in many different ways causing some t…

> These are not easy decisions, and saying "I would prefer people to pause their lives for 6 months than loose one life" is a completely braindead, extremist way of looking at things.

Based on the data from March it's pretty easy to estimate the effects of reopening things, including school. It's a very easy decision, don't reopen yet.

You're comparing an estimated thousands to tens of thousands dying from schools reopening to at most a few hundred thousand having to pause for 6 months and saying it's not an easy decision...?

Not to mention that most schools would have online programs as an alternative, not hold everyone back so your entire premise is false anyway.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#86

Post by hhs »

dragonwriter wrote: post #55

One should note that the safety risks are not one sided, as the American Academy of Pediatrics has pointed out in strongly urging planning centered around means to reopen in-person schooling, there are risks to health and lives at issue with not returning to school: > the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in…

Please note that there’s more to the story than that statement: https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/07/13/trump-ad...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#87

Post by collegecamp293 »

searine wrote: post #79
collegecamp293 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are nurses and grocery workers working then? How are they less at risk than teachers?

In both those cases exposure is much different. Nurses largely have the PPE needed to deal with covid and have been trained to do so. Store workers have far less exposure than a teacher trying to wrangle 30 kids for 8 hours a day.

I would argue store workers have much higher exposure due to thousands of customers touching surfaces throughout the store everyday

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#88

Post by lm28469 »

matz1 wrote: post #35
adamsea wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The danger is not overblown. New teachers just don’t appear out of the woodworks, it takes time to be trained. Plus, since in the US it’s such a poorly paid and poorly respected profession (at least not respected by society; Id imagine parents appreciate teachers), where will these new teachers come from?

>No. The danger is not overblown. Ok not for you but at least for me and whole lot other people consider the risk be overblown. >New teachers just don’t appear out of the woodworks, it takes time to be trained This assume there are more teacher who are afraid than not. If there is truly lack of teacher then there are plenty of ways to urge them to work, such as giving more benefit.

> Ok not for you but at least for me and whole lot other people consider the risk be overblown.

Funny to think that this is exactly the mental state that put the US at the top of the worsts countries in term of coronavirus response.

Six months in and "it's just the flu bro" is still going strong, humans are weird.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#89

Post by engineer_22 »

coldcode wrote: post #51
engineer_22 wrote: post #11

It's too late to put the genie back in the bottle. Whether we like it or not we're going with the Sweden Model. I've got school age kids myself, and I understand the risk. This is going to be a situation that could become hard to manage but our society's economy is constructed in such a way that relies on daytime programming for children and teens outside of their home. The teachers are going to have to help bear the…

Are you willing to die for the economy? Ask your kids, are they OK with you dying so that money can be made, maybe collect on some life insurance money? Are you OK with your kids potentially dying (rare but not zero) just to keep them busy during the day? I bet not.

To your point: there is a non-zero chance of dying when riding public transportation.

Hyperbole aside, I think it's important to understand the risks and find appropriate compromises. Clearly "business as usual" is not the best course of action. But "shut everything down and wait until 2021" isn't very practical either. We missed our chance to contain the virus - but the world's not going to end.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#90

Post by dx87 »

devalgo wrote: post #81
dragonwriter wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's be perfectly clear, this isn't something abstract. The consequences are dead kids Yes, the serious risk of increases in childhood “morbidity and mortality” if schools remain closed are exactly what the American Academy of Pediatrics cited as a key consideration when strongly urging that planning center on a return to in-person schooling with the start of the coming school year.

Appeal to authority, not a real argument.

Appeal to fallacy, not a real argument.
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