Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#71

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

devalgo wrote: post #42

_ea1k wrote: post #6

I feel like there is too much emphasis on these and not enough on the ones that earnestly want to go back to work. There should be a balance here, as we really do need a lot of students to have access to schools in the fall. Remote learning doesn't work for everyone and leaves a lot of people behind. The overall consequences of another lost semester may be far worse than the consequences of reopening.

>may be far worse than the consequences of reopening. Let's be perfectly clear, this isn't something abstract. The consequences are dead kids and dead teachers. Get that through your head. You of course imagine it won't be your kids that die but there's absolutely no reason to think that.

> Let's be perfectly clear, this isn't something abstract. The consequences are dead kids

Yes, the serious risk of increases in childhood “morbidity and mortality” if schools remain closed are exactly what the American Academy of Pediatrics cited as a key consideration when strongly urging that planning center on a return to in-person schooling with the start of the coming school year.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#72

Post by Applejinx » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

_ea1k wrote: post #6

I feel like there is too much emphasis on these and not enough on the ones that earnestly want to go back to work. There should be a balance here, as we really do need a lot of students to have access to schools in the fall. Remote learning doesn't work for everyone and leaves a lot of people behind. The overall consequences of another lost semester may be far worse than the consequences of reopening.

Here's a question to consider: behind on the way to what, exactly?

If we keep on getting pandemics (something that's been expected for a long time) the whole baseline of how society operates will be forcibly disrupted. (a baseline people can be 'left behind' on the way to: I hear talk of students missing vital academic AND SOCIAL connections, which sounds like pre-pandemic talk)

If we have even moderate economic collapse, which is inevitable with the pandemic we do have (and the other, related upheavals going on) then the destination simply will not exist. We will be flung into a Star Trek future where the existing mechanisms of human survival no longer apply. It's possible the consequences of dropping 'behind' will mean the difference between becoming wealthy through business and social connections, and literally starvation and homelessness (rather than just doing poorly and getting by). However, in those conditions, all of society collapses and the wealthy have no place to be anymore. Wealth depends upon the existence of a society that can support it.

In my opinion there is no possible benefit to pretending it's possible to go 'back to normal' in any sense, and it's on us to envision what comes next. 'Normal' is never coming back. It's already gone forever, so it's time to decide whether we want human beings to survive or not.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#73

Post by dx87 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #43

doopy-loopy2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deaths in children are essentially 0

Which is not relevant. This is not an issue regarding the health of the children as much as it is the health of the teachers.

It's entirely relevant to the parent comment who was specifically talking about kids dying from being sent back to school.

> Strong statement: dumb kids are better than dead kids.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#74

Post by throwaway0a5e » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

newfeatureok wrote: post #39

doopy-loopy2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not? also, they have machines that can sanitize them so they can be reused.

Schools generally do not provide many supplies to teachers. Given that many teachers do not receive basic supplies like paper from the schools, why do you think schools would purchase sanitation machines and tens of thousands of N95 masks?

>why do you think schools would purchase sanitation machines and tens of thousands of N95 masks?

Because the alternative of telling parents that their kids are either not going to school or will have to attend from home is a worse option to some school districts.

Schools are on some level accountable to the communities they serve. If the community wants to blow a five figure sum so that parents can have their kids in "daycare with learning" and be freed to go back to work then I see no reason the school or municipal government couldn't make that happen.

There's tens of thousands of schools in the US. They're not all operating under the same constraints and likewise the decisions they make with regard of if/when/how to reopen are gonna have a lot of variation.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#75

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

_ea1k wrote: post #6

I feel like there is too much emphasis on these and not enough on the ones that earnestly want to go back to work. There should be a balance here, as we really do need a lot of students to have access to schools in the fall. Remote learning doesn't work for everyone and leaves a lot of people behind. The overall consequences of another lost semester may be far worse than the consequences of reopening.

[deleted]

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#76

Post by throwawaysea » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

LA’s teachers union issued calls to defund the police and limit charter schools (AKA competition and accountability for teachers) as part of their reopening plans so I’m not sure that health is the only thing in play. It seems like large numbers of teachers are just openly exploiting this crisis for political and personal gain.

https://news.yahoo.com/l-teachers-union-calls-defund-1649434...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#77

Post by engineer_22 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

marvin wrote: post #22

engineer_22 wrote: post #11

It's too late to put the genie back in the bottle. Whether we like it or not we're going with the Sweden Model. I've got school age kids myself, and I understand the risk. This is going to be a situation that could become hard to manage but our society's economy is constructed in such a way that relies on daytime programming for children and teens outside of their home. The teachers are going to have to help bear the…

Or maybe they'll choose not to. It's a market economy. Maybe $30k per year isn't worth risking the life of one's family.

Maybe. I think the major problem is there is not a compelling childcare alternative that's ready to take over if the schools don't open.

I also think it's a "tale of two cities". There's a lot of political will to reopen the schools in rural areas that haven't been as deeply impacted by the virus itself. And rightly so - the risk in rural upstate New York is much lower than in Flushing, Queens. It's probably wisest to address this at a local level.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#78

Post by yboris » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:44 PM UTC

engineer_22 wrote: post #11

It's too late to put the genie back in the bottle. Whether we like it or not we're going with the Sweden Model. I've got school age kids myself, and I understand the risk. This is going to be a situation that could become hard to manage but our society's economy is constructed in such a way that relies on daytime programming for children and teens outside of their home. The teachers are going to have to help bear the…

You say you understand the risk. Do your kids have a say in this? It's their lives on the line. Would you respect their decision if they insist they are unwilling to go to school in person?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#79

Post by searine » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:46 PM UTC

collegecamp293 wrote: post #70

3pt14159 wrote: post #3

This is exactly why all the people that said "choosing to protect life is also choosing to protect the economy" were right. It sucks, but people with savings can choose to quit over having to risk their lives. So if there is an appreciable risk (and associated hazard, which, for many of our older educators there is) then that is what is going to happen and you still get the disruptions to the economy.

Why are nurses and grocery workers working then? How are they less at risk than teachers?

In both those cases exposure is much different.

Nurses largely have the PPE needed to deal with covid and have been trained to do so. Store workers have far less exposure than a teacher trying to wrangle 30 kids for 8 hours a day.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#80

Post by collegecamp293 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:46 PM UTC

devalgo wrote: post #68

koop123 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents are both nurses and they went to work and they were fine.

Are you kidding? There are hundreds of nurses and doctors who have gotten sick and that's when wearing full PPE. Do you think teachers and kids are going to be wearing PPE in class?? This is a troll comment.

What are the odds of a nurse and doctor with full PPE dying from COVID?