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Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

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Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#81

Post by maze-le »

usrusr wrote: post #72
maze-le wrote: post #26

> Sure, it's not like Russia or the CCP and you're not in danger of being suicided if you uncover some high level dirt You are not going to get disappered, but you are in danger of getting a fraudulent "psychiatric diagnosis" if you are a tax investigator uncovering dirt about some politicians or their cronies.[0][1] In this case the investigator got free, but I am sure there are some cases out there of people who di…

Well, that's an example that I'd consider specifically Bavarian, where CSU has been ruling for longer than the CCP has been ruling the PRC (no joke, if you ignore the wartime years the CCP already held power pre-PRC). On a national level things aren't looking quite as grim.

It happened in Frankfurt (Hessen), not Bavaria, you're probably referring to the Gustl Mollath case -- which is eerily similar. You're right its not a systemic issue I think (I hope), but it sheds light on the role of psychiatric "experts" in court proceedings and how corruptible they can be in some cases.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#82

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #64
cosmodisk wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All western countries are corrupt. The difference from the usual suspects is the way it's done. If in Russia, it may be as simple as cash in hand, in Germany or Britain it will be kids placement into a nice job, maybe a donation to a family run charity org, or a contract to friend's friend's construction company. Or even the good old one,where you do a favour and 5-7 years later, once not in government position anymo…

You're being downvoted because network effects aren't the same as corruption. Although it is certainly unpleasant to consider that government officials might be making decisions more favorable to one company than another in the hope or expectation that that they will get a board seat five years hence, it is worth noting that if they upset one company now, they may get the board seat on the other company. And since an…

You might have a point if one of the reliable features of privatisations in the UK over the last few decades hadn't been a steady stream of ministers pushing through privatisation - often at significant public cost - and then parachuting straight into the board of the privatised company.

This is a bazillion times worse than cash in an envelope, because it's straightforward larceny of public resources, papered over with some thin PR nonsense about "efficiency".

This current government isn't even pretending to do anything else. There have been so many no-bid contracts for "PPE supply" handed out to cronies with no PPE experience - and no PPE delivered, while lethal shortages continue - that there are are now formal legal challenges working their way through the courts.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#83

Post by cosmodisk »

chii wrote: post #24
solstice wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state government of lower Saxony (the state where VW is based) owns 25% of VW. I don't think that's a coincidence. Edit: looks like it's 20%

how can a company be both owned by, but also regulated by "the same" entity? that is a conflict of interest aint it?

There are lots of examples of state own enterprises. If correct legal barriers are erected,it can work,but obviously it's not always the case.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#84

Post by Mirioron »

lima wrote: post #70
maze-le wrote: post #26

> Sure, it's not like Russia or the CCP and you're not in danger of being suicided if you uncover some high level dirt You are not going to get disappered, but you are in danger of getting a fraudulent "psychiatric diagnosis" if you are a tax investigator uncovering dirt about some politicians or their cronies.[0][1] In this case the investigator got free, but I am sure there are some cases out there of people who di…

The affair you're talking about happened more than a decade ago, it was a major and pretty unique scandal in Germany, and the "expert" has been convicted not only to pay damages, but was also found to be guilty of malpractice. The state eventually offered the investigators to be re-hired. There were no consequences for the "instigators" because, to my understanding, it couldn't be proven that there was criminal inten…

Is it unique? Didn't Gustl Mollath [0] also end up in a psychiatric facility and it started with him claiming that a bank was evading taxes? He was involuntarily committed to a psychiatric facility. After years in there it turned out that his claim about the tax evasion was reasonable. From what I can tell, he spent ~6 years locked up in a psychiatric facility and got €600,000 in damages.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustl_Mollath

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#85

Post by awakeasleep »

levosmetalo wrote: post #69
arcturus17 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being Spanish yet having lived in Germany for quite some time, I agree with you... I'm not saying there's no corruption in Germany - I think there's always going to be some level corruption at a certain scale of state - but there's no need to go as far as China or Russia for comparison. Just come to the South of Europe for a taste of what grand-scale corruption in what are otherwise (seemingly) high-functioning democ…

The issue is people are just not aware on the corruption in Germany because there's no "personal" and "everyday" corruption in a daily life. But if you look "up" the amount of corruption rise to the astonishing levels. Just remember Stuttgart 21 or the Berlin Airport, Hamburg Elb Philharmonic, Battleship Gorch Fock. Germany is full of such corrupt projects, it's obvious and everyone knows about it, but nobody yet wen…

This resonates with me as an american.

I dont think there is any amount of money i could offer to safely escape a drunk driving ticket, however the ceo of my company was the head of the board for an security company, and we were forced to use their products despite an unimaginable amount of flaws.

The second the security company was sold we were allowed to drop every aspect of that company, 10 huge enterprise products, and the entire IT and Security organizations both agreed that throwing out the whole years roadmap and working to switch vendors as soon as possible was the best use of our time.

Thats a small example of pure and utter -yet legal- corruption. There is no world in which that vendor was the right choice for a single product let alone 10. Except the world where the CEO could make the productivity of one company fungible with the revenue of another.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#86

Post by adventured »

asah wrote: post #35

Lest anyone think this is limited to Germany, consider the length of time it took for the US SEC to catch up with Bernie Madoff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal#Prev... https://www.google.com/search?q=warnings+bernie+madoff

> consider the length of time it took for the US SEC to catch up with Bernie Madoff

Because it's critical to force a negative example about the US into a negative story about Germany.

Psychologically this happens so frequently (read: in all cases) because it's a suffering relief valve, it actually makes people feel better and relieves their mental anguish, so they're quite compelled to do it. That relief is so effective it's very difficult for people to resist. It's why whataboutism is so extraordinarily popular in general.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#87

Post by cynusx »

levosmetalo wrote: post #69
arcturus17 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being Spanish yet having lived in Germany for quite some time, I agree with you... I'm not saying there's no corruption in Germany - I think there's always going to be some level corruption at a certain scale of state - but there's no need to go as far as China or Russia for comparison. Just come to the South of Europe for a taste of what grand-scale corruption in what are otherwise (seemingly) high-functioning democ…

The issue is people are just not aware on the corruption in Germany because there's no "personal" and "everyday" corruption in a daily life. But if you look "up" the amount of corruption rise to the astonishing levels. Just remember Stuttgart 21 or the Berlin Airport, Hamburg Elb Philharmonic, Battleship Gorch Fock. Germany is full of such corrupt projects, it's obvious and everyone knows about it, but nobody yet wen…

I'd wager these are less cases of individual corruption than party-corruption aka horse-trading for influence and decisions.

A classic problem parties have is that they need to take care of their party militants and their families. This typically creates economic activities (insurance, banks, investment funds, charities, community organizations, ..) that are aligned on party lines.

These companies are part of the party infrastructure and are used as power-bases to influence the party as well.

It's called patronage and is rampant in western democracies.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#88

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

op03 wrote: post #58
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #4

Also, under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business leaving the country's internet behind Ukraine or Belarus.[1] If you're on the DAX or a politician, you're untouchable in Germany and lots of people inside and outside of Germany have no idea of how insa…

Mindlessly ambitious networks of people who care about themselves more than anything else exist in all countries. Google distribution of personality types within a population. They are weirdly similar across cultures. Where resources are low and there is not enough to go around for the most ambitious and driven, there "punishment" for wasting each others time and resources is more extreme. If Facebook or Google or Tw…

The same way you punish other crimes.

Corruption is crime, not vaguely acceptable opportunism. It has very direct negative social, political, and economic consequences. The fact that someone is robbing people using a company and/or a political organisation instead of guns and knives isn't an excuse - especially not when the sums involved can be so large.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#89

Post by allendoerfer »

k__ wrote: post #47
qwe098cube wrote: post #3

Even worse, the german treasury secretary Olaf Scholz apparently was already informed about the suspicions the BaFin had back in February 2019. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/scholz-wirecard-101.html

And that guy is the SPD chancelor candidate for the next election.

Are they still doing the candidate thing? Adorable.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#90

Post by sbmthakur »

calpaterson wrote: post #22

Sadly can't read the article as I don't have a subscription but have followed this in the FT. Germany has an ultra-protectionist political culture for pet German companies. Wirecard was one such pet company but there are many others who have benefited from implicit state support in the form of lowered standards and private favouritism: Deutsche, VW, Siemens, etc. Wirecard even holds a banking license so should be sub…

This is a nice summary for those who either don't have access to the FT coverage or are out of the loop:

When €2 Billion went missing at Wirecard:

https://finshots.in/archive/wirecard-accounting-scandal/

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