Live data from Hacker News

Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

wsj.com

41–50 of 350 posts

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#41
post #35

Lest anyone think this is limited to Germany, consider the length of time it took for the US SEC to catch up with Bernie Madoff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal#Prev... https://www.google.com/search?q=warnings+bernie+madoff

The Madoff case was utterly ridiculous.

The good part of it is that since Madoff the SEC is paying money to the whistleblowers, proportional to the money that they ultimately recover in fines. There's now even a proper industry of lawyers that will help you package the whistleblower case for the SEC.

Any of you out there seeing fraud - please help clear the system and get yourself some good retirement money!

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#42
post #17

Germany has a very high amount of corruption, even if the statistics look solid. This case of looking the other way is probably even a more benign example.

I consider myself ignorant here, but compared to what? In CPI or similar measures typically only Nordic countries come out ahead of Germany...

It is entrenched in the (political) culture of Germany. As I said, metrics are difficult to compare, so determining the degree of corruption is always a poor approximation. Transparency International usually has some good data, but they are completely off when it comes to Germany.

We have cases were public officials got bribes and weren't convicted or even didn't lose their position. Our former, former chancellor Kohl still refuses to testify against people that were involved in illegal party donations for his own party. He promised to keep it secret. The public is just told that these dirty money trails are "political reality".

But these are just the higher profile cases. It is prevalent in the industry too. That can have advantages as business do cooperate very closely with each other, but corruption is the inevitable result. A start up culture like in the US would just barely be possible, because established players will get their hands on the money that is available for investments.

Additionally, EU initiatives against corruption that mostly tried to introduce transparency about financial transactions are always rejected by Germany, with dire consequences for other countries.

Officially there is no legal term for corruption at all. Using your position of power to further personal gains is completely legal if no other laws are violated. There was "Amtsmissbrauch" at some point, but that was scrapped by the Nazis. Contemporary politicians probably think that not everything they did has been bad...

Aside from that there is also a lot of child abuse and getting dissidents declared to be insane by state authorities, but that is another story.

The CPI is a corruption -perception- index and Germany can be quite discrete about corruption and there is a tendency of people to believe the state. Neither Hitler nor the GDR-regime could change that apparently.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#44
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're on the DAX or a politician, you're untouchable in Germany and lots of people inside and outside of Germany have no idea of how insanely corrupt the German government and their corporate buddies are. This is obviously not true. There have been numerous uncovered political scandals in Germany that have led to politicians and managers loosing their job. Christian Wulff (Former German President), Guttenberg (f…

Yes, but did they got to jail or have their earnings confiscated? Losing your job is not much of a deterrent when you've filled your pockets with bribes you get to keep and have a nice pension waiting for you while being put on the payroll as an external consultant to the $BIG_CORP you helped during your rule.

In order for any of that to happen you'd have to be convicted of a crime first.

This would involve stripping immunity first, which doesn't happen all that often and involves approval from the parliament.

Naturally, this is a partisan issue and members of the ruling parties would obviously vote against it, making it very difficult to achieve in practise.

This is common practise in most democratic countries, though and isn't unique to Germany at all.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#45

Sadly can't read the article as I don't have a subscription but have followed this in the FT. Germany has an ultra-protectionist political culture for pet German companies. Wirecard was one such pet company but there are many others who have benefited from implicit state support in the form of lowered standards and private favouritism: Deutsche, VW, Siemens, etc. Wirecard even holds a banking license so should be sub…

My theory is, that the German state sees the companies as work creation schemes. Some of the smartest people work at big corps, but most people there are just running around burning money, but at least these people don't count as "unemployed".

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#46

Also, under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business leaving the country's internet behind Ukraine or Belarus.[1] If you're on the DAX or a politician, you're untouchable in Germany and lots of people inside and outside of Germany have no idea of how insa…

> lots of people inside and outside of Germany have no idea of how insanely corrupt the German government and their corporate buddies are

Compared to what? The ideal 100% angles? Because compared to reality and the rest of the world Germany sits very well in that regard.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#47

Even worse, the german treasury secretary Olaf Scholz apparently was already informed about the suspicions the BaFin had back in February 2019. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/scholz-wirecard-101.html

And that guy is the SPD chancelor candidate for the next election.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#48
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself ignorant here, but compared to what? In CPI or similar measures typically only Nordic countries come out ahead of Germany...

It is entrenched in the (political) culture of Germany. As I said, metrics are difficult to compare, so determining the degree of corruption is always a poor approximation. Transparency International usually has some good data, but they are completely off when it comes to Germany. We have cases were public officials got bribes and weren't convicted or even didn't lose their position. Our former, former chancellor Koh…

> Kohl still refuses

Well, he's dead.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is entrenched in the (political) culture of Germany. As I said, metrics are difficult to compare, so determining the degree of corruption is always a poor approximation. Transparency International usually has some good data, but they are completely off when it comes to Germany. We have cases were public officials got bribes and weren't convicted or even didn't lose their position. Our former, former chancellor Koh…

> Kohl still refuses Well, he's dead.

Well, ok, now he has an excuse...

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#50
post #16

Also, under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business leaving the country's internet behind Ukraine or Belarus.[1] If you're on the DAX or a politician, you're untouchable in Germany and lots of people inside and outside of Germany have no idea of how insa…

>If you're on the DAX or a politician, you're untouchable in Germany and lots of people inside and outside of Germany have no idea of how insanely corrupt the German government and their corporate buddies are. This is obviously not true. There have been numerous uncovered political scandals in Germany that have led to politicians and managers loosing their job. Christian Wulff (Former German President), Guttenberg (f…

Being Spanish yet having lived in Germany for quite some time, I agree with you...

I'm not saying there's no corruption in Germany - I think there's always going to be some level corruption at a certain scale of state - but there's no need to go as far as China or Russia for comparison. Just come to the South of Europe for a taste of what grand-scale corruption in what are otherwise (seemingly) high-functioning democracies...

I remember watching a Brazilian high government official (Justice minister?) on Anderson Cooper mentioning that Lava Jato had seen ~3 USD billion disappear, as Cooper reacted with a wide-eyed grin... And I thought to myself, huh, that's arguably the largest national corruption scandal in Brazil in recent history, and it's about the same size as the "EREs case" [1] in Spain, which was a regional affair, and where ~3 EUR billion also disappeared. One of many perpetrated by both main political parties in the last couple of decades.

Like I say, I don't think Germany is without corruption, but it's a matter of gradation - it's hard to label it as an "insanely corrupt" country seeing what's out here.

[1] https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caso_ERE_en_Andaluc%C3%ADa

Post reply on HN