Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 433 posts

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#371

Post by ksec »

sudosysgen wrote: post #175
mlindner wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repeating the same lie in a reply doesn’t make it true. Recently there’s been an influx in the past few days of tons of sinophiles.

Is it true or not that Huawei sells more devices than Apple? : https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2020/12/30/huawei-still-... Is it true or not that Huawei wanted to use HiSilicon for all of their phones? That is obviously true. The consequence is that Huawei needs more chips than Apple, that would have been sourced from TSMC. Therefore, they had the intention to be a customer of at least equal size as Apple to TSMC…

And they will have to buy chips from Qualcomm or Mediatek at their low end. Which is still business from TSMC.

So in the context of TSMC, it is irrelevant.

The same goes for their 5G RAN equipment.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#372

Post by puranjay »

syshum wrote: post #256
puranjay wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US under Trump is just far too unpredictable and unreliable. China appears more stable and predictable. Case in point: even post pandemic, when the US is withdrawing from the world, China doubled down on its commitment to Pakistan and initiated massive billion dollar projects last week. If I were Pakistan and in desperate need of financial assistance, I would look to China instead of USA, simply because of the fo…

>> I would look to China instead of USA and now you know why China is investing in Pakistan, it is not because they are good hearted wanting to help Pakistan It is destabilize the Region by putting a wedge between the US and Pakistan, The US keeps Pakistan and India stable, if the US loses it's influence over Pakistan well that will be very bad for the region.

I'm not defending Chinese actions in Pakistan (I am Indian; I have no reasons to). I'm just pointing out that Chinese actions have been consistent and hence, more reliable.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#373

Post by ksec »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #319
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is trying very hard to shut down all criticism of China and/or the CCP, worldwide. That makes China a threat to free speech worldwide.

Does freedom of speech mean freedom from consequences? If you are my supplier, and I accuse you of various crimes (which may or may not be true), and as a result you stop supplying me, then are you shutting down my free speech? Do you have an obligation to keep doing business with me no matter what I say?

> consequences

That is on the assumption of there is an accusation. Australia will simply be doing anything not in China's interest, that does not mean it oppose China nor accusing China or anything but China would immediately retaliate. Which in reality means if you are a major business partner to China you are ultimately controlled by China.

And you are right, no one has obligation to do business with anyone. And that is why some people has decided not to do business with China.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#374

Post by Traster »

Xixi wrote: post #350
robert_foss wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SMIC isn't close to the same node as TSMC. A competitive high-end SOC could not be manufacured by them.

When Intel refused to make Apple's ARM processor for iPhones, TSMC was also unable to build a competitive high-end SOC. And yet 13 years later, here we are. Of course, Intel and TSMC both shop with ASML, and that's not a possibility anymore for SMIC, so it's not a quite similar comparison... Yet I think it's important to keep some perspective: this Chinese/US spat is not a championship where a winner will be declared…

>When Intel refused to make Apple's ARM processor for iPhones, TSMC was also unable to build a competitive high-end SOC. And yet 13 years later, here we are. Of course, Intel and TSMC both shop with ASML, and that's not a possibility anymore for SMIC, so it's not a quite similar comparison...

When Intel refused to make Apple's ARM processor for iPhones Apple went to Samsung didn't they?

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#375

Post by moeadham »

0xy wrote: post #325
_7fvc wrote: post #260

I see this news as a loss for the US. It has to resort to regulations to stop TSMC from doing business with Huawei. When you can't incentivize your ally, that means your opponent's business is still very attractive. Regulations will only cripple your ally. Taiwan may comply on the outside. But inside, they'll cut under-the-table deals with China. They'll find loop holes to skirt regulations. Taiwan seems to be headin…

The US will defend Taiwan by any means necessary, including nuclear options. If they don't, they've already lost to China. Chip superiority is everything. If the US can't manufacture or source modern chips then it's over for them. US leaders and the military know this to be true. Taiwan is not Hong Kong. The US doesn't need Hong Kong. The US needs Taiwan.

Don’t forget about South Korea (Samsung)

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#376

Post by moeadham »

robert_foss wrote: post #14
chvid wrote: post #13

SMIC, the mainland supplier expected to replace TSMC, successfully IPOs with a massive jump: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/smic-chinas-biggest-chipmake... JUL 15 2020 SMIC, China’s biggest chipmaker, saw its shares surge 245% at the open on its first day of trade in Shanghai. SMIC issued issuing 1,685,620,000 shares at 27.46 yuan per share, raising 46.28 billion yuan ($6.62 billion). Shares were trading at 95 yuan…

SMIC isn't close to the same node as TSMC. A competitive high-end SOC could not be manufacured by them.

This is known as Intel Syndrome.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#377

Post by totalZero »

_7fvc wrote: post #260

I see this news as a loss for the US. It has to resort to regulations to stop TSMC from doing business with Huawei. When you can't incentivize your ally, that means your opponent's business is still very attractive. Regulations will only cripple your ally. Taiwan may comply on the outside. But inside, they'll cut under-the-table deals with China. They'll find loop holes to skirt regulations. Taiwan seems to be headin…

TSMC is in a much shakier position than the US. It makes more sense for the US to bear the mantle given the geographic proximity and commercial entanglements between Taiwan and the USA.

In practice I believe this action doesn't reduce the soft power of the USA -- everyone knows the immense sway that US demand has on Taiwanese foundry companies.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#378

Post by ethbro »

supernova87a wrote: post #368
0xy wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US will defend Taiwan by any means necessary, including nuclear options. If they don't, they've already lost to China. Chip superiority is everything. If the US can't manufacture or source modern chips then it's over for them. US leaders and the military know this to be true. Taiwan is not Hong Kong. The US doesn't need Hong Kong. The US needs Taiwan.

You think the US is prepared to use nuclear weapons in a conflict involving Taiwan? Over semiconductor chips? (or are you using "nuclear option" in the rhetorical sense?) Or, given your next sentence says "if they don't..." I suppose you're only offering a non-expert sports-fan level of opinion. Well, my opinion is that the US government, and the US public, is unwilling and has been demonstrably unable to muster any…

> semiconductors don't hit big conservative wallets and their motivations

The military.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#379

Post by ethbro »

thewarrior wrote: post #104
jacquesm wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's so funny. ASML holds the market for a reason, this is not so simple. You could probably do it on a Friday night but the Chinese may take a bit longer than that.

This is essentially a Manhattan project like initiative. It doesn’t have to happen overnight. China now has some of the best universities doing research in optics. If it happens in 5 years what will ASML do then ? The west’s monopoly on this sector would be finished. At this point China has no choice but to develop the tech or be forced to not have processors. Time will tell. Given that hard power is being used to pu…

But can they afford to fund it alone?

The Soviet Union didn't collapse because a lack of capability. They collapsed because it was too expensive to forge their own way, when most of the world could pool capital via free trade.

China is big. But the rest of the world is bigger. And despotic regimes inclined to trade with an embargoed state aren't typically the most flush economic partners.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#380

Post by noir_lord »

sudosysgen wrote: post #175
mlindner wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repeating the same lie in a reply doesn’t make it true. Recently there’s been an influx in the past few days of tons of sinophiles.

Is it true or not that Huawei sells more devices than Apple? : https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2020/12/30/huawei-still-... Is it true or not that Huawei wanted to use HiSilicon for all of their phones? That is obviously true. The consequence is that Huawei needs more chips than Apple, that would have been sourced from TSMC. Therefore, they had the intention to be a customer of at least equal size as Apple to TSMC…

They may need more chips but they don't necessarily need the same mix of chips, Huawei devices don't require A13's.

I mean the z80 was still manufactured until recently and used all over in devices, tsmc isn't going to make those on a 7nm prpcess.

Post reply on HN