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Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

latimes.com

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Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#251
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody said anything about "superior". Men changing their bodies to match their gender are generally not prescribed estrogen, so it doesn't make sense to reference them in the context of people being prescribed estrogen, that's all.

you're really quite sure that trans women are not offered estrogen?

Trans women are offered estrogen, of course. Neither cis nor trans men are normally prescribed estrogen.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#252
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How should one phrase that sentence without it becoming completely confusing? Would it be offensive to say "a person with an x and y chromosome"? Even though gender is only a social construct... for some reason, taking estrogen will have totally different effects on a person, depending on that gender.

Gender is not a social construct. Your gender is the ability to become pregnant or to impregnate someone. This statement is not about politics, its just mere biology. What's socially constructed is how your gender is presented or implied because of said society. No matter how society "constructs" your gender, you're still biologically male or female. Even with gender reassignment surgery - your'e still biologically m…

> Gender is not a social construct.

Yes, it is.

> Your gender is the ability to become pregnant or to impregnate someone

No, that's reproductive function. Which is closely related to (but different from) biological sex, and not particularly closely related to gender.

> What's socially constructed is how your gender is presented

No, gender presentation (and gender identity, which is related to but different from presentation) is not a social construct, though it is influenced by gender, which is.

> or implied because of said society.

If you mean “ascribed by” instead of “implied because of”, that's what gender, distinct from gender identity, gender presentation, sex, reproductive function, etc., refers to. So, aside from not understanding the terminology, you seem to correctly understand that it is a social construct.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#253
post #233
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>most people getting this treatment see themselves as women who are changing their bodies to match their gender, not as men who are changing their gender. I am assuming you have some sort of source showing that this person has the desire to transition? If not I am unclear why this fact matters in the context of this story of what appears to be a doctor forcing medication on a patient against both their and their gua…

The higher-order reason that it's relevant is that there's something of a moral panic going on about medical therapy for transgender youth. While this particular case (assuming that the news story is accurate, of course) seems like an entirely unjustified prescription that's also entirely irrelevant to any medical gender transition, there is absolutely a push to try to get doctors to be unable to prescribe estrogen o…

Do you have a source for encouraging the prescription of children to have hormone replacement therapy? All I’ve seen are puberty blockers myself.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#255
post #86
post #46

"oppositional defiant disorder" That's what they call mouthy rebels these days

Meh. It's a real thing. A small but not trivial portion of the public immediately lapses into a near-rage at anything that appears to be an authority figure. People seem to grow out of it. Maybe it's PTSD from poor interactions with past authorities, maybe it's some kind of pack hierarchy hold over, who knows-- but it appears to be a pretty widespread phenomena. It doesn't stop being real just because the description…

A small but not trivial portion of the public immediately lapses into a near-rage at anything that appears to be an authority figure. People seem to grow out of it.

With the Internet, they now all get together and organize extremist groups. Before the Internet, they had trouble achieving a critical mass. This seems to be more of a middle aged thing than something people grow out of.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're really quite sure that trans women are not offered estrogen?

Trans men are not offered estrogen. Which is what the parent is saying.

trans men are born female who are male. why would you give them estrogen

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're really quite sure that trans women are not offered estrogen?

Trans women are offered estrogen, of course. Neither cis nor trans men are normally prescribed estrogen.

what is your point, why would you give estrogen to a straight male or a born female who identifies as male?

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement needs a clarification: > 13 days of hormone therapy are unlikely to cause sterility . Yes, it's possible he won't end up sterilized by this. However: The breast growth triggered in men by medical doses of estrogen is not reversible and requires surgery to correct. There will be social ramifications for life. There may be other (non-virility) physical ramifications for life.

2mg of E2 for only 13 days and he needs surgery? Sounds very much like something a lawyer would say. At most a few mm of development/widening of the areola with the start of development under. Not noticeable unless you are actually measuring them weekly. It is common enough that a someone will have to go off HRT after only a few weeks and anything underlying breast development will undo itself, but not the areola. Bu…

This is speculation but if the boy had higher levels of T his body could have already been producing a higher then average amount of estrogen.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, there's obviously a problem here.

To me, it seems like the system is working as intended. Rather well, actually, because a bad doctor was brought to light with a fairly benign case rather than something potentially deadly later on.

Would you please stop posting flamebait to HN? We've warned you twice before.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gender is not a social construct. Your gender is the ability to become pregnant or to impregnate someone. This statement is not about politics, its just mere biology. What's socially constructed is how your gender is presented or implied because of said society. No matter how society "constructs" your gender, you're still biologically male or female. Even with gender reassignment surgery - your'e still biologically m…

Hermaphrodites invalidate this argument.

This invalidates the argument as much as people with Down Syndrome invalidate the statement "people have 42 chromosomes".

Hermaphrodism is a genetic abnormality, not a normal state of being.

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