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Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

psyche.co

361–370 of 396 posts

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#361
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression isn't "sad". Depression _can_ be a function of the environment, but it's still not "sad". Sad is a healthy, appropriate emotion. Depression is a numbness that makes it difficult to even feel sadness.

Depression as you mean it is a proper state for a person to be be in when his life and the world about him seem to be very wrong. To delete depression rather than addressing the root causes seems strange and inhuman.

The root causes are often unfixable. So you try to fix the other side of the equation.

Often it means adjusting unrealistic expectations. Like if I'm sad because I'm not a famous movie star. You could either make me a movie star, or make me accept that this is very likely not going to happen, and that's OK.

Nothing inhuman about that.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#362
"Depression" is often just inability to adjust to depressing environment. In the most extreme case, prisoners in Nazi camps should feel depressed and I'd argue that so should most of the people below the poverty line that's forced to be cogs in the depressing machine of capitalism. If my only choice was to be a cog on one of Amazon's warehouses, I'd rather choose to be a hermit, try shrooms and generally decline to waste life on doing silly things to enrich someone.

If we discard true clinical depression where a young dude in perfect health feels suicidal in his own bentley, my approach to treat depression would be reading books that stimulate imagination, from Harry Potter to more exciting literature like Transcendental Magic by Eliphas Levi.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#363

It reminds me of what Aldous Huxley wrote (about people in distress): “The real hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be most normal. "Many of them are normal because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives, that they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms as the neurotic does." They are…

Some more food for thought - occasionally doctors will privately admit that many of their patients aren't really depressed, they're in fact suffering from "shit life syndrome" - in other words, their mood is the normal and natural response to the circumstances they are in. Here's an FT article about Blackpool, a deprived seaside town in the north of England. It has the highest unemployment rate, some of the lowest li…

Your article is better than the one on the top, which is a bit undecided about questioning the status quo. It advocates for some changes, but tries to remain inside the same world view.

From outside US, it is quiiite noticeable that a lot of age-old philosophical and societal problems have been converted into personal problems that are supposedly solved by “pills” or “therapy” (that is as uniform and easily applicable as taking pills). Despite the pace of scientific and technological progress, people don't change so fast and evolve so quickly to have those “solved”. It is also doubtful that the rates of popular “mental health issues” have grown in recent decades the way the headlines routinely tell us. If some observer told you he had been seeing more and more people with four hands and two heads, you'd suppose that he had actually been getting more and more drunk. It is possible that the system that categorizes those issues is not up to the task.

Partially, it's because everything is a nail if you have a hammer. Drugs exist, patients know that and want them, doctors know that and prescribe them, the wheels are rolling, and it's sure hard to swim up the current. Whether they do work is not that important, people have always had talismans, and strong feelings about them (just look at the global mask wearing hassle).

Partially, it's because modern education is still based on positivism, scientism, and mechanicism of XIX century, but it is very rarely stated clearly. Even “critical” disciplines take a lot of things for granted. On this very page, people write about DNA this and DNA that, neurotransmitters this and neurotransmitters that, and it's implied that they'd tend to explain the world that way. Despite the origins of these terms, it is easy to see that they are used in the same way celestial signs were used to describe the initial state of a person, and imbalance of humors was used to reason about the immediate state of a person. The physical effects of, say, a bullet flying into someone's body can be studied and understood, and surgeons do treat these wounds, but it would be stupid to only describe the problem at that level without asking how and why bullets are actually shot.

Partially, it's because the image of the world presented to a person — not just by media, but also by familiar, decent, like-minded people — is skewed, and many have to over-correct into the opposite direction to balance it. Some ever-important matters are suppressed and rarely discussed in societies that consider themselves free and well organized, and the assumed path to “success” in life won't admit everyone even in theory. Not so long ago, only nobles had an option to care about having the biggest rubies in their jewelry, but now, thanks to progress, everyone can be a small noble and worry about countless new trifles. The generated noise hinders the uncovering of what lies beneath.

All in all, the “depression” might not be the term that needs a more precise or extensive definition. It might be a swept heap of everything that is not defined.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#364
The chemical imbalance explanation is... wanting. My response typically is, "Which chemical is out of balance? Phlegm, blood, yellow bile, or black bile?" The chemical imbalance explanation has been used for centuries as a crutch when we don't know what's going on.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#365
post #56

I've always been depressive and pessimistic person as far as I can remember. I've been looking at other people only to see how happy they are and how content they with their life. They feel motivated, want something from life and in generally think that being alive is alright, which I just couldn't internalize no matter how hard I tried. Essentially, I've come to the conclusion that there _must_ be something wrong wi…

It's hard not to be depressed when you realize how sad society is, and how most of how we're supposed to spend our days (working for an employer, staring at a computer screen all day) has no actual meaning to the world. Yet we're not allowed to talk about it at or you'll get fired, or people will think you're depressing.

For me I've found that my happiness is mostly a function of the community of people I'm surrounded with. This means having a solid group of friends and/or significant other. It's very tough to find this, especially in the U.S. when you're already an "adult" and didn't make many friends in your childhood/university years, but it is possible.

But that's just me, others don't need much social contact. Everyone is different. But for any software engineers like me who find that staring at a computer all day does little for their happiness, you are definitely not alone.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counter point, being diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed medication was one of the best things to have ever happened to me. Everybody is different though, medication is beneficial for some and detrimental for others. It's important to be aware of your mental state and how treatment (whether drugs or other) affects it, and to be able to make informed choices regarding treatment. A good doctor/shrink should take in…

> deadset against prescribing stimulant medication to children I've seen it first hand. Child is beautiful and active and happy and sad and angry and living and the Mother just can't handle it and BAM - drugs. Child grows up, becomes a teenager. Prescription drugs stop. Teenage moves to Methamphetamine, start cooking. Eventually is busted and jailed. The connection, for me, is clear. I feel very very lucky that I gre…

> and the Mother just can't handle it

It's unfortunate that it's often the case that psychiatric help is only sought for "problem children", who negatively impact those around them. These are the kids that get "easily distracted and distracts others" on all their report cards.

Well behaved children with ADHD (generally those with inattentive-type) tend to have their poor academic performance written off as laziness or stupidity. Their report cards tend to say "has great potential, if only he would apply himself"

Unfortunately, it's common just to give kids some pills to settle them down, especially when therapy is expensive or resource limited, without helping them learn healthy coping mechanisms and management strategies.

Often as they grow older, they become less hyperactive, which leads to the belief that they've "grown out" of their ADHD. There's a common misconception (even amongst doctors) that ADHD is a children's disease, when in fact up to 2/3 of children with ADHD carry it through to adulthood. I have friends who went to their GP and were straight up told that they couldn't have ADHD as they're adults.

Therapy should be the first-line strategy for treating children with ADHD, with medication being an alternative or supplemental treatment. Otherwise you end up with adults who never learned healthy management strategies as children, as the medication suppressed the need to learn them. Then as they "grow out" of their ADHD, they're taken off medication and are unable to function as effective members of society.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#367
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have been close to a psychotic person who refuses to take antipsychotic medication (a common enough problem that I have faced with multiple people), the "just trying to sell drugs" story gets old very fast. A lot of people really do need the drugs in order to stop harming themselves. I think this article does a disservice by suggesting that people on such drugs are trying to get over a minor breakup. And actua…

Please don’t consider my initial statement questioning a metaphor to mean that people that have suffered a psychotic episode or are likely to suffer a psychotic episode in the near future should avoid medication. The threshold for considering medication should be lower than a psychotic episode. My concern is the metaphor in which many people are viewing mental health, not in the treatments themselves.

Thanks for that. Sorry if my reply was too vicious. I think I was criticizing a variant of the described attitude rather than you or your specific comment.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#368
post #294
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the analogy is "an environmental condition that significantly modifies 'natural' behavior". The only essentialist argument is that there was a 'natural' to begin with, which in this case ought to be obvious. Our 'natural' environment, i.e. the environment in which we evolved to prosper, is far different in which the environment that we live today. If you fail to see the analogy, you are either being overly reductive…

What is overly reductive is reducing the entirety of the evolution of human society up to the current state to the metaphor of a cage, a metaphor chosen for the purpose of inducing fear and suspicion of others with whom you share society.

It's unclear to me that a techno-industrial society will not inevitably yield extreme alienation for a large proportion of the population -- who do not understand it's basic under pinnings.

Most kids can barely pass algebra. We here on hacker news have intuitions for how the algorithms that influence things work... the average person does not. When they hear about "fake news", "artificial lungs", "bioengineering", "drones" -- they don't see it the same way we do -- I see a cultural shift towards angst and fear of the power of technology.. that is warranted.

Even something as simple as birth control has profound influence on us as a species as well as our culture -- to which we are still adapting.

When one looks at other late-stage post-modern capitalist countries (e.g Japan) -- you see similar developments of asexuality as we are beginning to see here in the states.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#369
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't there a lot of pseudoscience-based food allergy tests out there? I've seen ones where you drop blood onto paper cards and mail them in. Somehow they test your old dead blood and then they send back a list of foods and tell you if you're allergic to them... Seems fishy to me, and I could not find how it worked or anything that these tests are legit. Every other type of allergy that causes inflammation in the bo…

I went to an Allergy clinic in a hospital and just got the entire test where they prick sample sites into your back (it doesn't hurt at all). I don't have my paper near me but I hit something like 80-85% of the allergens they tested me with which ran the gamut from pollens to bugs, a few common common foods (tomatoes/nightshades for sure, I forget what else) were also on the list although not that many. IIRC it was e…

I had a panel for foods and came back as not allergic to any of them.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#370
I don't like this idea at all. By not saying "chemical imbalance" there's the possibility of implying that mental illness is about attitude or choice, which is a destructive comment that people who struggle with depression have to deal with a lot.
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