When your coworker does great work, tell their manager • Hacker News Board

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#301

Post by wolco » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 1:26 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #244

wolco wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exit interviewers are for those who quit. Never seen a firing exit interview.

At Netflix everyone gets an exit interview, no matter the reason for leaving.

How does it physically happen?

Usually you are called into a meeting. Told your services are no longer required. Then you are given career resource support / paperwork with an offer and helped off the property. At what point is there a chance for an exit interview? After they first fire you, you are in shock.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#302

Post by discordance » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 1:27 AM UTC

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #261

giantg2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to, but I find the lying and mind games to be morally offensive, especially when they can have such a large impact on a person's wellbeing.

How is communicating what you're working on lying or using mind games?

We aren’t always lucky enough to get a project that will shine, yet all projects are compared with the same eyes.

That can lead to having to ‘lie’ or act overly proud of work you know is essential but boring.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

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Post by PenguinCoder » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 1:31 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #107

ping_pong wrote: post #17

This is the biggest problem with stack ranking software engineers, the practice I had to endure while at a well known software company. All it does is create a zero-sum game, so I have no incentive to compliment anyone else. I needed to make sure that my rank was as high as I could make it, which really sucked during performance time. It was very stressful, even though I was a high performer, because it didn't foster…

This is what I loved about working at Netflix. We didn't have performance reviews. It was assumed that your performance was good to excellent, otherwise you wouldn't be working there anymore. You had a constant feedback loop with your manager on performance, but nothing was ever formal. Raises were completely divorced from any performance assessment. You were paid whatever they thought the max was for your skillset,…

Sounds like a place I would like to work.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#304

Post by kjgkjhfkjf » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 1:32 AM UTC

You may think you're communicating friendly appreciation when you send a complementary message about someone to their manager with them cc-ed, but the message that you're also sending is that you're the sort of person who thinks it's okay to talk to people's managers about them, and you run a very real risk of losing your peers' trust.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

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Post by maurys » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 1:39 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #89

mark-wagner wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until November 2013 Microsoft used stack ranking.

Doesn’t Microsoft, as well as almost all other large software companies, still do almost the same thing by having a fixed distribution of ratings that needs to be met under some organizational unit? IE under each director of 100 people you have 5 A+, 25 A, 30 B, 30 C, 5 D, 5F?

The only other system I can recall is usually for things like sales. Where you have a fixed salary and commission-driven bonuses based on your numbers that quarter.

Of course, sales is easier to compare 1:1.

And I've always thought that hard targets would be more stressful than stack-ranking.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#306

Post by cortesoft » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 1:42 AM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #193

jedberg wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Yes, it certainly happens and it sucks for the good person that it happens to. But managers like that don't last very long. When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned, if your manager gave you any feedback leading up to it, etc. And then they follow up if the person says, "it was a total shock". I've definitely seen managers make some bad firing decisions, but…

When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned Why would anyone give any kind of useful information in the exit interview? The only one who benefits is the company, they need to cover their back in case a suit over harassment comes up. If anyone wants revenge over poor management, keep silent, let the fellow continue to lose the company money and set them up for a lawsuit. HR is not on your si…

This seems like a limited view. I have worked and re-worked with people across multiple companies during my career. To burn bridges as you go through your career seems short sighted.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#307

Post by dylan604 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 1:58 AM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #193

jedberg wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Yes, it certainly happens and it sucks for the good person that it happens to. But managers like that don't last very long. When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned, if your manager gave you any feedback leading up to it, etc. And then they follow up if the person says, "it was a total shock". I've definitely seen managers make some bad firing decisions, but…

When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned Why would anyone give any kind of useful information in the exit interview? The only one who benefits is the company, they need to cover their back in case a suit over harassment comes up. If anyone wants revenge over poor management, keep silent, let the fellow continue to lose the company money and set them up for a lawsuit. HR is not on your si…

>Why would anyone give any kind of useful information in the exit interview? The only one who benefits is the company

My favorite personal experience on an exit interview: Question: What did you like best about working at $Company? Answer: The weather (it was in SoCal, so weather was typically great)

That was the best thing I could come up with, and was about as useful as I was going to be

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#308

Post by sabujp » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

geeethanks

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#309

Post by azemetre » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:44 AM UTC

fbanon9876 wrote: post #135

ping_pong wrote: post #17

This is the biggest problem with stack ranking software engineers, the practice I had to endure while at a well known software company. All it does is create a zero-sum game, so I have no incentive to compliment anyone else. I needed to make sure that my rank was as high as I could make it, which really sucked during performance time. It was very stressful, even though I was a high performer, because it didn't foster…

I work at FB. Can't speak for other teams, but this does not match the culture I've seen in 3+ years. There is a tool to send thanks, but there are no expectations -- it's just a nice thing to see coworkers appreciate you. I've done reviews and never heard anyone mention the number of "thanks" their report has received. The PSC cycle (bi-annual review) is stressful, which I think is where the "craziness" stems. OTOH,…

How does FB handle people that are strict 9-5'ers?

I read a lot of conflicting things on teamblind or glassdoor about a poor WLB. It's hard to tell if this was someone in their early 20s out of school struggling to work with a large company or someone mid 30s that burned out.

If you just do your obligations does it look bad? I mean not everyone can be a top performer, especially if there is a curve. Some companies will PIP you out, but I can't quite get the vibe at FB.

I'd love to join, I interviewed last year but went thru some personal grief and didn't really prep well then failed the interview. I'd like to time to properly study this year because the process as was very do-able if you put in the effort.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#310

Post by kevinastone » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:45 AM UTC

strulovich wrote: post #93

ping_pong wrote: post #17

This is the biggest problem with stack ranking software engineers, the practice I had to endure while at a well known software company. All it does is create a zero-sum game, so I have no incentive to compliment anyone else. I needed to make sure that my rank was as high as I could make it, which really sucked during performance time. It was very stressful, even though I was a high performer, because it didn't foster…

I've been working at Facebook for a while now, and I think the environment is competitive, and you do need to shine in front of endless talent, but doing so doesn't mean numbers. Sadly, many people who don't do well take their feedback to mean that they need more code commits or comments. Some of them might even succeed at gaming the system for a short while due to a bad manager. The truth from my experience is that…

I was an eng manager at Facebook for a number of years and I think you accurately summarized the coding metrics in performance reviews perpetual great debate.