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When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

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Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#241

Post by user5994461 »

yibg wrote: post #199
remote_phone wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My coworker was a product manager at Netflix and she said in a 2 year period she saw at least 20 engineers get fired. That seems pretty high to me.

Probably depends on team and circumstances. In my ~3 years there I've only seen a handful of engineers I interact with (which was a lot) get fired.

That's a huge amount.

I remember working in a large company with easily a hundred people over the years. I'd say there were only 2 employees that were fireable materials.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#242

Post by croutonwagon »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #193
jedberg wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Yes, it certainly happens and it sucks for the good person that it happens to. But managers like that don't last very long. When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned, if your manager gave you any feedback leading up to it, etc. And then they follow up if the person says, "it was a total shock". I've definitely seen managers make some bad firing decisions, but…

When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned Why would anyone give any kind of useful information in the exit interview? The only one who benefits is the company, they need to cover their back in case a suit over harassment comes up. If anyone wants revenge over poor management, keep silent, let the fellow continue to lose the company money and set them up for a lawsuit. HR is not on your si…

I have given useful information in exits when i felt the company was open to it and would take it seriously. Because while i knew my tenure was done and it was time to move on, me providing my reasons may help the rest f their retention. And from what i have heard, that advice was taken seriously and it did work.

I have also just run through the paces in ones where i know its not gonna change a thing.

I also work in a small enough community where its wise not to burn bridges because you very well may run across other again down the line.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#243

Post by normalnorm »

jedberg wrote: post #203
normalnorm wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you get let go I'm sorry for going a bit offtopic, but I have noticed this weird linguistic contortion "get let go" often. Why the euphemisms? You get fired. It doesn't hurt to speak plainly. This "let go" expression seems weirdly childish, like how people say that someone "passed on" to avoid confronting the hard reality of death. And I'm not picking on you, I know that almost everyone talks like this now.

Well at Netflix in particular, there is no real difference between being fired and being laid off, since both come with the same severance and benefits. So it makes sense to use a generic term. In most cases you use the generic term to avoid liability. Saying someone was fired could be libelous/slanderous.

Interesting point, but in most cases people say it when talking about themselves (I was let go) or in the hypothetical, as was the case here with OP: "When you get let go". So no risk of liability, there must be some other explanation.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#244

Post by jedberg »

wolco wrote: post #239
jedberg wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Yes, it certainly happens and it sucks for the good person that it happens to. But managers like that don't last very long. When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned, if your manager gave you any feedback leading up to it, etc. And then they follow up if the person says, "it was a total shock". I've definitely seen managers make some bad firing decisions, but…

Exit interviewers are for those who quit. Never seen a firing exit interview.

At Netflix everyone gets an exit interview, no matter the reason for leaving.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#245

Post by jedberg »

iainmerrick wrote: post #221
jedberg wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very cynical view. While the company may not be on your side, helping your coworkers by proving feedback about bad management is a good thing. Also, why would you want the company to fail? Just because they have one bad manager? My friends still work there, and if you have stock options, you even have a financial interest in the continued success of the company. I see no downside in providing truthful feedba…

The context being described is one in which you were just sacked at the whim of a manager. Doesn’t it seem a little funny to wait until the exit interview to ask if it came as a surprise? Maybe they’re going to act in that information somehow, perhaps sacking that manager if it’s part of a pattern of poor decisions, but they’re not planning on doing anything to help you personally, like overturning the dismissal. May…

> Doesn’t it seem a little funny to wait until the exit interview to ask if it came as a surprise?

When else would they ask? The exit interview is when you are being informed of the decision.

The process is you get a meeting invite for a 1 on 1 with your manager. They come in, tell you that you're getting let go and why, and then invite HR to come in. They then leave and HR goes over the paperwork and asks you about if you expected it. If you were a poor performer, then it's most likely not your first meeting with HR.

I'm not sure when else they would ask.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#246

Post by jedberg »

user5994461 wrote: post #241
yibg wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably depends on team and circumstances. In my ~3 years there I've only seen a handful of engineers I interact with (which was a lot) get fired.

That's a huge amount. I remember working in a large company with easily a hundred people over the years. I'd say there were only 2 employees that were fireable materials.

Yeah but how hard was it to hire new people? There is a direct correlation. It's super easy to hire people at Netflix. It is literally just up to the hiring manager.

The flip side is that it is also easy to fire, so you can quickly correct any mistakes you may have made in hiring.

This of course means more churn. But to someone working there, this felt like a good thing. It means you didn't have people just biding their time like you see in most big companies.

Never once did I think, "how does that person still have a job?" Unlike the other big companies I've worked for, where there is always at least one person who you know is just floating as long as they can and getting away with it.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#247

Post by ehmish »

stuxnet79 wrote: post #232
jedberg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the ex-employee will never benefit either from supporting it. Like I said, even when you get fired, you still have stock options. So you do in fact benefit by helping the company when you're leaving. > The bond to co-workers at a former workplace is strange and tenuous - actually it goes the other way around, they reach out to you when they want to improve their situation. Let them ask you when they want out, t…

> Whatever happened to "we're all in this together"? Because we are not in this together. I like working in collaborative environments but after switching jobs more times than I can count I've become more cynical. - Co-workers are not your friends. - HR is not your friend. - Management is not your friend. It's a business relationship and in the eyes of the corporate structure you are just a fungible resource being co…

I'd disagree with that, management and HR, sure, but friendship with co-workers is important. Personal relationships are the main way people find jobs, and unlike with management and HR with co-workers at least nominally you're on the same team

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#249

Post by jedberg »

normalnorm wrote: post #243
jedberg wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well at Netflix in particular, there is no real difference between being fired and being laid off, since both come with the same severance and benefits. So it makes sense to use a generic term. In most cases you use the generic term to avoid liability. Saying someone was fired could be libelous/slanderous.

Interesting point, but in most cases people say it when talking about themselves (I was let go) or in the hypothetical, as was the case here with OP: "When you get let go". So no risk of liability, there must be some other explanation.

There is still a liability when talking about oneself. Sometimes when someone is fired they have to sign a non-disparagement agreement to get their severance.

Saying you were fired could be considered disparaging.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#250

Post by pgnas »

I completely agree with the idea of paying a compliment to someones supervisor or manager, I find it rare when people recognize great work. While I agree also with why you may want to ask the manager and the issues makes some sense , I think it goes a long way! Just to call them out on the great work!

I genuinely believe that this attitude promotes positive environments. Great work always deserves to be recognized. Good article

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