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Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

latimes.com

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Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#91

Post by __blockcipher__ »

dsun179 wrote: post #54
stupidcar wrote: post #14

This reads like the plot of a dystopian young adult sci-fi novel. Children who resist authority being diagnosed with a "behavioural disorder" and being forcibly given hormones by an evil doctor. Yet apparently this is the reality of modern society.

I remember when I had "strange behaviors" as young boy. Some times later i was circumcised. 30 years later I still suffer from it. I want to get kids soon. I hope they get a strange as I was. Stupid, funny, dangerous.

You might already be aware, but it is possible to reclaim most of what was lost via the principle of tissue expansion. It’s called foreskin restoration and allows you to regrow basically everything except the frenulum/ridged band.

It’s time-consuming and takes awhile to learn how to tug properly, and in a certain sense can be psychologically painful to go through, but the results I’ve personally seen so far have been very encouraging.

Sorry again to hear what happened to you.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#92

Post by notdang »

dsun179 wrote: post #54
stupidcar wrote: post #14

This reads like the plot of a dystopian young adult sci-fi novel. Children who resist authority being diagnosed with a "behavioural disorder" and being forcibly given hormones by an evil doctor. Yet apparently this is the reality of modern society.

I remember when I had "strange behaviors" as young boy. Some times later i was circumcised. 30 years later I still suffer from it. I want to get kids soon. I hope they get a strange as I was. Stupid, funny, dangerous.

Careful with your wishes. The school doesn't like strange students. Depends in what country you live, but in the country I live it's solved with money, send the kid to a private school and the school will swallow everything as long as you pay.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#93

Post by rubber_duck »

newacct583 wrote: post #27
microcolonel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that nobody seems to be able to account for his decision, it seems like maybe he should be in prison. If somebody assaults my testicles and renders me infertile, that is an extremely serious crime; this doctor may well have done the equivalent (along with completely destroying the boy mentally) with the stroke of a pen.

Came here ready to be horrified at the gender paranoia living under the surface of HN, was actually surprised with how reasonable everyone was. Except this comment. None of those symptoms (infertility, "complete mental destruction" or, heh, "assault on the testicles") are alleged here. He got an inappropriate drug, possibly punitively. And that's horrifying enough without painting figurative spectres of the unimagina…

If a coach was doping teen athletes with test without their knowledge or coercing them in to it, hell even misleading them to do it, I'm pretty sure I would expect jail time, assault charges etc. And you would probably be in favour as well. But because attacking this feels like an attack on your political narrative you feel the need to spin it inside of it and downplay this.

And don't even try the "this is a medical professional" - the kid got gyno and this is not an approved procedure - it's exactly the same as the coach doping kids.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#94

Post by zozbot234 »

ardit33 wrote: post #65
swayvil wrote: post #46

"oppositional defiant disorder" That's what they call mouthy rebels these days

no, that's what they usually call young 'psychopaths' that act out, aka 'sociopaths'... there is a high correlation between the two, but no psychologist wants to label a kid as a sociopath... I had one, in class (5th or 6th grade), and I remember the experience was eye opening. Teachers had to spend a copius amount of energy just to keep him in check.... his behavior would oscillate between funny/to scary dangerous w…

> no, that's what they usually call young 'psychopaths' that act out, aka 'sociopaths'...

That would be "conduct disorder" actually, something rather more severe than just ODD. If a kid shows a pattern of behaving in blatantly antisocial ways that demonstrate a severe lack of empathy for others, that's pretty much it. Setting stuff on fire is actually a tell-tale sign, as is willful animal cruelty.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#95

Post by worik »

heavyset_go wrote: post #61
non-entity wrote: post #8

> Prior to that, Ouchi said, his client felt compelled to take the pills because he feared that disobeying Wang would have a detrimental effect on his pending criminal case. Makes you wonder what all kind of shady medical shit is done in jails and prisons.

> Makes you wonder what all kind of shady medical shit is done in jails and prisons. I've personally watched guards ignore diabetic patients in crisis, and heard them tell arrested, but not yet convicted, people to not declare any medical condition that they need medications for while in custody, because the cops didn't want to drive the arrested persons to the hospital and keep them under observation while they're p…

We have the opposite here (Otago, Aotearoa).

I friend and neighbour of mine, on completing their nurses training, went to work at the local prison.

The medical care they dispensed there was far above what the prisoners received out side. And we have a good general medical system.

The guards may well have been sadistic when away from medical personnel, I cannot say.

There are all sorts of problems of all sorts of different sorts - and if it bleeds it leads - but given that I despair at the reports I keep getting from the USA. ARe things realy getting that bad?

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#96

Post by gruez »

MegaThorx wrote: post #81
huhtenberg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest cost dwarfing all of these is probably the research.

But aren't these subsidized with tax payer money?

AFAIK the biggest cost is approval/clinical trials, which aren't typically taxpayer funded. The initial research is in part taxpayer funded, though.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#97

Post by newacct583 »

rubber_duck wrote: post #93
newacct583 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here ready to be horrified at the gender paranoia living under the surface of HN, was actually surprised with how reasonable everyone was. Except this comment. None of those symptoms (infertility, "complete mental destruction" or, heh, "assault on the testicles") are alleged here. He got an inappropriate drug, possibly punitively. And that's horrifying enough without painting figurative spectres of the unimagina…

If a coach was doping teen athletes with test without their knowledge or coercing them in to it, hell even misleading them to do it, I'm pretty sure I would expect jail time, assault charges etc. And you would probably be in favour as well. But because attacking this feels like an attack on your political narrative you feel the need to spin it inside of it and downplay this. And don't even try the "this is a medical…

I think I'd support jail time for this abuse, FWIW (to be fair I've only read the one article). I'm reacting to the gendered reasoning among the poster above. It's bad because it's an unnecessary medical process used (apparently) as a punishment, not because it stole his manhood or whatever.

I'm fine if you're super upset. But if you're MORE upset because of the gendering interaction, that's wrong. The poster above clearly was.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#98

Post by worik »

slg wrote: post #90
justaguyhere wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just young men, all men I suppose. Breast cancer receives tons of attention and money compared to testicular cancer. Men's rights movements are made fun of. Sexual assaults on men is funny while the same on women is horrifying. Casually making jokes about it in movies is okay, as long as the victim is male. etc etc.

More men generally die annually from breast cancer[1] than testicular cancer[2]. The reason men's rights movements are mocked is because of comments like this that equate any possible problem men have as been on equal footing with all the problems that women have. [1] - https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/breast-cancer/statistics [2] - https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...

Also the men's rights activists are a mean and bitter group, generally. I got interested in the "men's rights movement" in the early nineties when I could really have done with the support. But all they could do was hate

It is like comparing the "black power" movement - which generally is about how it is good to be black and the "white power" movement which is generally about how it is bad to be, erm, not white!

I guess from a position of power and privilege it is hard to identify shortcomings and needs in your own community

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#99

Post by OminousWeapons »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #78

> “Estrogen is not a treatment for ODD. I can’t be more emphatic about that,” McGough said. “You won’t find a reference anywhere that supports the use of estrogen for ODD.” Well certainly the doctor got this theory from someplace. They believed this young man would be better behaved if he had less testosterone and more estrogen, and went ahead with a treatment against scientific evidence (and ethics quite frankly). S…

Probably many, but that's not really the problem. We want people to be developing and appropriately testing theories. What we don't want is:

* Treating people against their will outside of specific extreme circumstances which this was not one of

* Coercing vulnerable populations into treatment

* Concealing treatment plans from guardians

* Treating in a manner that is not in line with evidence based practice

* Treating in a manner that is not designed to advance the patient's well-being but is instead designed to pacify the patient for another person's convenience

* Running what amount to illegal clinical trials that have not been validated for medical and ethical soundness, safety, and legitimacy by a medical oversight board

* Insurance fraud (I don't know how payments work in correctional facilities, but generally speaking there is zero probability this treatment plan would result in reimbursement from an insurer. I would naively assume they lied about what they were doing for reimbursement)

As a healthcare practitioner, behavior like this makes me sick. The legal system should open up on this guy with all they've got.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#100

Post by gruez »

Latty wrote: post #88
gruez wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume you're talking about pharmacy profit and insurance company profit. "universal healthcare" just means everyone's covered. It doesn't mean everything's owned & operated by the government. That means there can still be private insurance companies and pharmacies, both making a profit.

I would assume they are referring to most of the current suggestions for universal healthcare in the US, which follow a centralised model where a central body could collectively negotiate for drug prices (as the NHS does here in the UK, very effectively).

>which follow a centralised model where a central body could collectively negotiate for drug prices

That's orthogonal to universal healthcare or even a single payer system. There's nothing preventing you from having the whole country be represented collectively, but still have private insurers, like in germany. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2019/how-drug-prices-a...

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