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Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

driving.co.uk

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Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#211

Post by milkytron »

sdinsn wrote: post #123
milkytron wrote: post #28

JD Power is clearly in bed with the traditional Detroit automakers. If you look at their history of rewards[0], you'll find that many times they choose the big three american companies vehicles over clearly superior import vehicles. They're vehicles on the page show one vehicle from each of the three big automakers in the US, one Chevy, one Ford, and a Dodge. There's also a Volvo in there that I'm sure fought some ba…

From your link, Toyota got the most awards this year, with Nissan and Lexus (Lexus is owned by Toyota) getting 2 awards.

I meant if you look at years past. They have links to the rewards for each year.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#212

Post by xkjkls »

frei wrote: post #4

>The J.D. Power US Initial Quality Study, which gauges problems encountered in the first three months of ownership. A very questionable definition of "reliability".

How is "problems in the first three months of ownership" not a good judge of "Initial Quality"?

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#213

Post by xkjkls »

pmiller2 wrote: post #17
frei wrote: post #4

>The J.D. Power US Initial Quality Study, which gauges problems encountered in the first three months of ownership. A very questionable definition of "reliability".

Most product failures happen very early on, or very late in the design lifespan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve

Also manufacturing problems are usually highly correlated.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#214

Post by xkjkls »

FireBeyond wrote: post #175
chadash wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt that Tesla's are less reliable by other definitions, but I agree that this isn't a great measure. Tesla's have lots of new and untested technology. That's their appeal. If toyota wanted to be less conservative and start using blazing new technologies in their cars, I'm sure we'd see the same issues there. Teslas are notorious for software bugs that eventually get fixed. What i'm more interested in is wh…

> Tesla's have lots of new and untested technology. Tell us about some of these, beyond Autopilot. Because this is a common refrain from Tesla owners, some of whom believe that only Tesla has adaptive blind spot sensors, or that only Tesla will keep you in your lane actively (and not just do the pinball bumper drift sensor), and so on. What other new and untested technologies is Tesla deploying today?

Seats. Other car makers don't use Tesla seats.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#215

Post by xkjkls »

SpookyBits wrote: post #159

Everytime Tesla is mentioned here the deluge of hate is overwhelming. I genuinely don't understand it. Here comes a company that is actually doing something fundamentally transformative and good for the planet and its inhabitants instead just another in the countless line of garbage apps that at best are a solution looking for a problem and at worst actively contributing to the destruction of our species (Facebook).…

> fundamentally transformative and good for the planet and its inhabitants instead

I think this is where the fundamental difference lies. A huge number of people see Tesla as wrapping itself in that cloth but not really achieving anything of the sort.

I'd say a number of Tesla's critics are strong environmentalists who feel like Tesla has just turned greenwashing into its product.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#216

Post by xkjkls »

fataliss wrote: post #166
SpookyBits wrote: post #159

Everytime Tesla is mentioned here the deluge of hate is overwhelming. I genuinely don't understand it. Here comes a company that is actually doing something fundamentally transformative and good for the planet and its inhabitants instead just another in the countless line of garbage apps that at best are a solution looking for a problem and at worst actively contributing to the destruction of our species (Facebook).…

I will not argue that Tesla is doing things differently. I have one gripe with the absolute truth suggested by "good for the planet and its inhabitants" that so many EV manufacturers ride on. Are electric cars good for the planet? Nope. Are they less bad than gas cars? Maybe. It's like saying that Diet coke is good for you because it replaces normal coke that is bad for you. That's an erroneous and arguably dangerous…

Also, the idea that "electric cars the solution" is a specious claim. Buses, trains, etc, are still far more efficient in greenhouse emissions standards than a culture that encourages everyone to have a personal car. It's not clear that we should be incentivizing electric car ownership than disincentivizing car ownership at all.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#217

Post by bdamm »

b112 wrote: post #183
bdamm wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done rural night driving in my Tesla Model 3. Yes, the display can be dimmed down well below the headlight reflection luminosity. The display also switches into night-mode automatically at sunset, where the colors become grey-on-black instead of black-on-white. You're right about the red theme, it would be welcome.

I still don't like any internal light, and a white blacklight seems... silly. Even if dimmed down, it's still there. (I have owned cars with LCDs before, and it's annoying if I can't completely shut them off). OLED would at least have no backlight.

Well if you like driving with NO internal light, you CAN turn off the screen. I also enjoy occasionally driving with no instruments.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#218

Post by xkjkls »

SpookyBits wrote: post #177
fataliss wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will not argue that Tesla is doing things differently. I have one gripe with the absolute truth suggested by "good for the planet and its inhabitants" that so many EV manufacturers ride on. Are electric cars good for the planet? Nope. Are they less bad than gas cars? Maybe. It's like saying that Diet coke is good for you because it replaces normal coke that is bad for you. That's an erroneous and arguably dangerous…

I understand your reasoning but this is a perfect example of the saying "Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good". I agree that there are better solutions in terms of environmental cost for mobility but given the constraints of human behavior and urgent need for massive immediate reduction of carbon emissions, EV's are currently our best shot.

Why? Why isn't more public transit, which in ever study is massively more greenhouse gas efficient than electric cars and is also already an existing and proven technology a better option?

Why aren't plugin hybrids a better option? Battery electric vehicles require massive emissions in assembling a Li+ battery of that size. Given that most trips for people are short distances that wouldn't end up using the fuel tank of a plugin hybrid, why is encouraging their adoption not a better solution.

There seems to be a belief that BEVs are the obvious and accepted solution to the climate crisis that I don't think meets muster.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#219

Post by xkjkls »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #41
asperous wrote: post #16

Here's another source (consumer reports) that backs up the idea that Teslas are on the less reliable end: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-makes-big-leap-consume... My thoughts are that Tesla is a newer company, they are trying things that others aren't, and third, reliability never seemed to be a top goal for them.

I think it's more that reliability only really comes with maturity as a car company. In the same way that the reliability of a code base increases with maturity. A car is like a code base in that no one person ever fully understands the entire thing.

Reliability comes from pretty well known manufacturing principles at this point. Things like six sigma, continuous improvement, and the Toyota Production System are taught at every B-school in the country for a reason. Tesla actively flaunts all of these.

We shouldn't act like producing cars in a tent will end up with anything better than Ukrainian build quality.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#220

Post by xkjkls »

rootusrootus wrote: post #117
asperous wrote: post #16

Here's another source (consumer reports) that backs up the idea that Teslas are on the less reliable end: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-makes-big-leap-consume... My thoughts are that Tesla is a newer company, they are trying things that others aren't, and third, reliability never seemed to be a top goal for them.

I've always figured the really crappy Model 3 builds were the tent builds. Mine, apparently, was built inside the building and not in the tend, because it's been pretty great.

Building cars inside a tent proves a lack of commitment to build quality that is going to affect all their cars, not just the tent ones.
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