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Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

driving.co.uk

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Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#201

Post by brianwawok »

kbenson wrote: post #99
ex3ndr wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, tesla behaves just like a normal car. Changing gear is the same as Mercedes, default settings makes tesla same as any other car. If you will change it's settings to something different than it is have to learn something. Chill Mode + No recuperation + no "one pedal driving" and you will get typical Mazda behavior. The biggest issue with tesla is that it is freaking powerful if you are moving from other car.

> Chill Mode + No recuperation + no "one pedal driving" and you will get typical Mazda behavior. And how likely are you to get exactly that after receiving a rental that someone else has played with all the settings for? My guess is that the combined effect of rental agencies not taking the time to reset settings (bluetooth pairing is never empty on anything I rent) and people wanting to play with all the extra setti…

Also, I don't think that is fully normal car driving.

Does a normal car have a situation where you need to reboot the MCU (media control unit, basically the computer that powers the screen) in order to open the glovebox?

Does a normal car have 2 ways to open the door, one of which damages the trim?

Does a normal car have no obvious way to "lock" the doors when you leave?

I am a _VERY_ happy Tesla owner as I said. There is still a lot to them that I think might be a bit much to throw on someone for a 1 day rental.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#202

Post by brianwawok »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #188
ex3ndr wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, tesla behaves just like a normal car. Changing gear is the same as Mercedes, default settings makes tesla same as any other car. If you will change it's settings to something different than it is have to learn something. Chill Mode + No recuperation + no "one pedal driving" and you will get typical Mazda behavior. The biggest issue with tesla is that it is freaking powerful if you are moving from other car.

This doesn't sound like a normal car to me. I've never driven a car where doing the wrong thing on the infotainment screen would prevent the car from moving. Typically cars do it the other way around- if you're doing something you're not supposed to while driving, they just freeze or back you out of the infotainment screen but allow the car to move

To be clear, you can drive without the infotainment screen in most cases. You won't be able to see your gear nor your speed, but it should go forward.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#203

Post by giarc »

ardy42 wrote: post #95
giarc wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also argue that Tesla is misleading since it won't allow customers in 15 states to fill out surveys.

> You could also argue that Tesla is misleading since it won't allow customers in 15 states to fill out surveys. What? Can you go into more detail?

In the article it says only customers from 35 states could fill out the survey since Tesla blocks customers in 15 states. So the data on Tesla isn't representative of the 50 states.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#204

Post by wlesieutre »

davedx wrote: post #118
wlesieutre wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though when you stuff everything except the engine and brakes into the infotainment system, it does put you in a worse spot when your infotainment system locks up. How many other cars do you need to learn a button combination on the steering wheel to reboot the infotainment screen when it crashes while driving, and then while it reboots your turn signals stop making sounds and you don't have a speedometer?

Yep. As a new Model 3 owner, this is definitely an issue and a huge drawback of them not having a smaller dashboard screen for critical functionality like the speedo. The "black screen" issue is very real and affects lots of people. I've already experienced it twice within the first month of driving, if it happens a few more times it's off to the service centre with it. All in all I'm extremely happy with the car, it…

Some cars are doing a HUD option with driver info in you field of view at the bottom of the windshield, I think that would be a great way for Tesla to maintain the “cool screen” factor while keeping important information available when infotainment breaks.

But then you need the HUD hardware and another little computer to manage it, and since the Model 3’s “everything goes in the infotainment system” is fundamentally a cost-cutting measure, I doubt it will happen. Or if it does, it’ll be a premium trim item.

And since vehicle speed is arguably pretty important for driver safety (if not when flowing with traffic, then when taking a sharply curved exit ramp off the highway) it’s not a good look to put it as a paid upgrade. Tesla wouldn’t want to admit that a second screen is helpful.

Best case would be to make the main screen stop crashing, but if that were easy they’d have done it already.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#205

Post by kogus »

abfan1127 wrote: post #42
kogus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you are saying that this survey is meaningless because it disagrees with your anecdotal experience. If the survey is conducted in a rigorous and valid way, then it's the perception, not the study, that needs to be suspect. Does J.D. publish their methodology and data? The best I could find was this PDF: https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/file/2020-06/202... .

review consumer reports reviews of FCA and GM cars. They are crap. JD Power looks at the first 3 months. That's before the first oil change! The reality is that high-reliability cars require no mechanical repairs in the first 100k miles. anecdotal evidence: 1989 Honda Civic only needed a/c compressor from 100-180k miles. 1991 Honda Civic only needed a/c compressor from 98-140k miles. 2007 Toyota Camry required a CV j…

I don't think it's as black-and-white as you suggest. This link seems to support the narrative that FCA has greatly improved, and it also agrees that Subaru and BMW, in spite of their high quality stereotype, statistically suffer from more than their fair share of issues: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...

Anecdotal evidence is fun, but it's useless for making any kind of informed decision. We happen to have a 2008 Toyota Sienna. The general consensus for that vehicle is that its practically bulletproof. But we've had chronic issues with it since 50,000 miles. AC went out, plastic seals falling off, engine knocking, and many other issues. But I wouldn't hesitate to consider a Toyota when we replace it, because I know our experience has been an outlier.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#206

Post by xkjkls »

darth_avocado wrote: post #47

This survey is garbage. Survey design is an art. And unfortunately, this survey does not differentiate between a big problem like "brakes are shot" and a small one like "My spotify playlist doesn't show up like I want". Dig a bit deeper, for Tesla, > Infotainment is the source of more than a quarter of all problems Another thing to point out is that J.D. Power’s IQS does not differentiate between a problem that is th…

JD Power is the most respected survey in the business.

It's pretty undeniable to argue that Tesla has more production issues than just about every other automaker on the planet. Elon's idea to increase Model 3 production, by... making things in a tent? has posed some pretty obviously predictable quality issues.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#207

Post by mcguire »

jedieaston wrote: post #71
mcguire wrote: post #44

" ...as the Elon Musk-founded firm reportedly wouldn’t allow its customers to be surveyed in 15 of America’s 50 states... " Sigh. This again? Tesla has joined the list of producers of quality products like Oracle?

In the other thread, this was phrased as Tesla not allowing those states to release the information of people who bought a car to third-parties because privacy. I'm sure if you wanted to take the survey in one of those states you can just reach out to JD Power yourself, they can't scrape your information though.

How does Tesla "not allowing those states to release the information of people who bought a car to third-parties"? That's purely between you, the state motor vehicle registration office, and the state's regulations, right?

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#208

Post by xkjkls »

woofie11 wrote: post #134
FireBeyond wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for several other manufacturers, the infotainment system is also the single largest source of problems, not "faulty brakes" or similar, so it's not like Tesla is being singled out here. > design issue in which everything works as intended but the learning curve might be too steep. It could be entirely argued that a design with a too steep learning curve, _especially when intended to be used in a moving vehicle_ i…

I think one of the questions is gizmo factor. My car doesn't have an infotainment system, so I can't have problems with it. A premium car with premium luxuries like bluetooth, air conditioning, GPS, self-driving, power windows, heads-up display, that button that open doors on minivans, airbags, and the like will have a lot more failures than a 1950-era Ford F150 truck. Does that make it a worse car? A better car? Or…

The majority of problems mentioned in the article are not gizmos, but things that exist on every car. Brake pads, seats not fitting, panel gaps causing leaks. Given Tesla's manufacturing process it seems utterly predictable that they would have more issues with build quality than any other automaker.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#209

Post by xkjkls »

rsanek wrote: post #145
woofie11 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the questions is gizmo factor. My car doesn't have an infotainment system, so I can't have problems with it. A premium car with premium luxuries like bluetooth, air conditioning, GPS, self-driving, power windows, heads-up display, that button that open doors on minivans, airbags, and the like will have a lot more failures than a 1950-era Ford F150 truck. Does that make it a worse car? A better car? Or…

Are bluetooth, air conditioning, or airbags really considered 'premium luxuries'?

Yeah, this is a comparison of 2020 models too, so literally all of them have that.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#210

Post by xkjkls »

AgloeDreams wrote: post #52
spodek wrote: post #39

> the Elon Musk-founded firm Musk didn't found Tesla. From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tesla,_Inc . > Tesla was incorporated on July 1, 2003 by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning. and that they, with a third employee, > connected with Elon Musk, who contributed US$6.5 million of the initial (Series A) US$7.5 million round of investment in February 2004

Technically speaking his investment came with a retroactive co-founder status according to the company. But yeah no he wasn't there in the beginning.

Not really. The money didn't come with that restrictions. Later lawsuits created those.
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