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The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

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Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#91

What I say to my non-Greek friends is that Athens is a really beautiful city, because it is really ugly. I have yet to meet a person living in Athens that likes these buildings for any other reasons than that you've grew up in them. In fact, the houses made in what Greeks call "neo-classical" style are considered to be a major improvement. This is the style you can find in the area of Plaka, Metz etc.

Many people call Vienna beautiful, but I have a direct comparison. I spent most of my childhood in Attica (northern suburbs, 8 Km from Syntagma square, so basically still Athens), in 5 different polykatoikies. All of them had balconies, bidets, elevators, good heating, plenty of light, were quiet and relatively clean. Here in Vienna, I've had one apartment with terrace and 0 with balconies (of 6 total I've lived in), lots of noise, thin walls and dirt. Elevators and toilets inside the apartment were often added in the last 20-30 years in older buildings, balconies are often impossible and you usually have noisy and somewhat dangerous gas heating with boilers inside the apartment. IOW, housing quality in Athens was significantly better even though back then we were lower middle class (my mother was a single mother with 2 kids). The apartment I'm sitting in right now cost me approx. €750k (for 75m²) and has no balconies.

I don't want to go back to Athens, but apartments are typically much better there.

FWIW, the house I lived in from 1985-1990 is still standing and looks exactly the same: https://www.google.at/maps/@38.0225488,23.8094767,3a,65.9y,1...

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#92

Athens is so ugly that it comes the other way around. It looks like no other. When I travel around Europe I sometimes feel that all cities look the same. When I go to Athens I feel that I am not in Europe anymore, it's a different planet.

"all cities look the same" Except, of course, for the one that has as a centrepiece a huge old fortress (still used by the local military) on the plug on an ancient volcano. ;-)

I dunno. I always thought that one looked kind of like a scaled-up version of Bath.

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#93

That's where I grew up - amid the polykatoikies! It's very strange to see such a positive view of Athens. I mean, growing up, I can't remember anyone ever having a good thing to say about our own homes. Looking down from Lycabetus hill, Athens -rather the entire Attican basin from Penteli to Piraeus and from Parnitha to Hymmetus- looks covered with gray, frayed, books or document binders, or perhaps a mille-feuille w…

> In the summer, all this concrete makes the heat of an already pretty hot place unbearable.

A friend of mine lived in arizona for a while, where the summer days would routinely hit 110 degrees F (> 40C).

I asked him about it, and he said he worked during the day when it was hot, and when he would get home he could sit out in his backyard comfortably on warm summer nights.

Made more sense.

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#94

Athens is so ugly that it comes the other way around. It looks like no other. When I travel around Europe I sometimes feel that all cities look the same. When I go to Athens I feel that I am not in Europe anymore, it's a different planet.

I'll leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwl7tthqzkA

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#95

That's where I grew up - amid the polykatoikies! It's very strange to see such a positive view of Athens. I mean, growing up, I can't remember anyone ever having a good thing to say about our own homes. Looking down from Lycabetus hill, Athens -rather the entire Attican basin from Penteli to Piraeus and from Parnitha to Hymmetus- looks covered with gray, frayed, books or document binders, or perhaps a mille-feuille w…

[deleted]

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#96

That's where I grew up - amid the polykatoikies! It's very strange to see such a positive view of Athens. I mean, growing up, I can't remember anyone ever having a good thing to say about our own homes. Looking down from Lycabetus hill, Athens -rather the entire Attican basin from Penteli to Piraeus and from Parnitha to Hymmetus- looks covered with gray, frayed, books or document binders, or perhaps a mille-feuille w…

> where black dust covers every surface inside a home unless one dusts and brooms and slops every single day.

You can't just close your windows and run an air purifier?

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#97
Khrushchev apartments get a lot of bad press, but represent a statist approach to a similar problem: mass housing needs in a hurry, in a post war recovery economy.

I really don't want this to descend into 'private did better' because there are climate differences as well as political and social differences. I think the command economy ran out of the will to succeed.

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#98
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That part jumped out at me, too. > “There were wealthier people on the upper floors,” says Dragonas, “people who had just arrived from the countryside further down and poor students in the basement. That sort of vertical stratification inside a five-story building helped Athens to avoid horizontal stratification — there weren’t really neighborhoods that were only rich or only poor. In the US before Brown v. Board, ma…

This is false. Redlining and racist covenants predate Brown by decades.

Yes, there was segregation before Brown. But it was not so pervasive and near-universal in the way it became after. There were many places where whites and Blacks did live in the same areas. These places may have been segregated, but it was on the scale of city blocks or streets. You did not have large urban ghettoes in virtually every city of any size like you do today.

Of course Brown was not bad, it was just not enough, and we still have to finish what Brown started. A big part of the problem is that the Supreme Court undermined the force of Brown in subsequent rulings instead of following through.

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#99
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go look at the schools in poor Black neighborhoods in Cleveland, Chicago, Boston, Columbus, Detroit, Indianapolis, Cincinnatti. You will find buildings in disrepair, lacking basic things like air conditioning. Last year, Columbus City Schools cancelled classes several days because it was too hot. If you look at teachers' salaries, the city school districts pay significantly less than the surrounding suburbs, while ha…

> You will find buildings in disrepair, lacking basic things like air conditioning. Offtopic, but schools are closed for the summer. How many US states need air conditioning in schools? Honest question as an outsider who's never lived in an apartment with AC.

My anecdote is from Columbus, Ohio, so I'd say a lot of states do considering Columbus' latitude.

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#100
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That part jumped out at me, too. > “There were wealthier people on the upper floors,” says Dragonas, “people who had just arrived from the countryside further down and poor students in the basement. That sort of vertical stratification inside a five-story building helped Athens to avoid horizontal stratification — there weren’t really neighborhoods that were only rich or only poor. In the US before Brown v. Board, ma…

Ohio is probably doing nothing about it because their state Supreme Court decision contradicts the national Supreme Court decision in San Antonio vs Rodriguez. I'm no legal scholar, but I think this is right up there with Dred Scott and Citizens United for worst-supreme-court-decisions-of-all-time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Independent_School...

I believe the Ohio ruling was based on Ohio's own state constitution.
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