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How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

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Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#91
post #2

Good question and answer at the end of the article. Fat is not what's making Americans fat. It's the prevalence of carbohydrates in our diets, and overeating of the same. I was in KY last week interviewing my great aunt who is 108 years old. Do you think she never ate bacon, beef, etc? Haha, their diets would be today's poster child for meatlovers. They didn't eat too much sugar, or carbs, but more importantly they n…

When my friends ask about nutrition, explaining fat is the very first thing I try to do. Eating fat does not necessarily make you fat, nor is it in itself a bad at all. Many fats are among the best things for your brain and heart. At the same time, fat-free foods can quite easily be bullshit. A pound of sugar is fat-free, after all, but has an insane calorific value. (110 per oz) Sugar is 100% total carbs. A ounce of…

Excellent points.

Bodybuilders know a lot about diet, especially in the context of controlling the body fat percentage - mostly because in their case, the diet must work, or else they lose the competition. They can't rely on the latest fad on Oprah's that may or may not actually work. So the stuff they do tends to have a solid reality-based backing.

Any bodybuilder will tell you that low-fat diets are bullshit. Carbs are probably more aggressive fat-builders than fat per se, mostly because carbs are absorbed quickly, while fats are absorbed more slowly.

It's interesting to see the convergence from various sources. E.g., some diets recommended by weightlifters for "maintenance" (only to preserve a certain physique), and the diet recommended by Ray Kurzweil on health and longevity grounds, are similar in that the recommended daily intake of macronutrients is 33% carbs, 33% fat, and 33% protein as percentage of calories, or roughly 2:1:2 in weight.

As a comparison, that's slightly more protein that most people normally eat, a heck of a lot less carbs than the average intake, and a fairly average level of fat intake. I actually did this; reducing carbs was hard at first, but I got used to it after a while. It's amazing just how high you can raise the total caloric intake, if you keep the macronutrients at 33/33/33 relative ratios, without starting to gain fat. I was eating over 3200 cal / day, with 3 hours of lifting weights / week as my only exercise, and I was neither gaining nor losing fat (but I was gaining muscle).

In my mind, there's no doubt: By far the easiest way (in terms of effort spent, hours in the gym spent, etc.) to lose fat is to reduce the total calories by reducing the carbs intake (don't bother with tweaking the fat intake), and lift weights either 2 or 3 times a week, between 30 and 60 minutes each. 2 x 30 is the minimum that produces results, 3 x 60 is the maximum that allows you to keep it up a long time without burning out.

Don't eat carbs below 25% of your daily caloric intake, or you'll start to feel pretty weak. In other words, reduce carbs, but don't be a carbs nazi.

EDIT: This message was edited several times.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#92
post #30

I've been overweight my entire life, and honestly, I blame the Surgeon General in the 1980s for telling my mom that feeding me low fat foods (which end up being high carb foods) will make me skinny. Everyone believed this cargo cult "science" and it has had a devastating impact for hundreds of millions of people.

low fat + plenty of carbs = recipe for disaster

Literally.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#93
post #48
post #30

I've been overweight my entire life, and honestly, I blame the Surgeon General in the 1980s for telling my mom that feeding me low fat foods (which end up being high carb foods) will make me skinny. Everyone believed this cargo cult "science" and it has had a devastating impact for hundreds of millions of people.

I'm asking this sincerely, but don't people from traditionally healthy Asian countries eat a hell of a lot of rice? That's my first thought every time someone mentions how bad carbs are. But I have trouble finding any non-antecdotal data. I want to believe the obesity problem is more of a portion control thing, for example, when McDonald's opened, did a normal adult actually eat a hamburger and small fries for lunch…

> I'm asking this sincerely, but don't people from traditionally healthy Asian countries eat a hell of a lot of rice?

They're not sedentary, and the portions are usually small.

You still see obesity in those cultures, particularly among the rich - and bingo! those groups are more sedentary and can afford to eat more.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#94
post #20
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or we just make healthy food taste better.

healthy good DOES taste better. you've just been raised on rubbish so therefor you think that is how all food should taste. I was the same. I hated peas, carrots, sweet potato, that sort of thing. A few years ago I was at a friends place and she grew all her own produce. It was the first time I had ever tasted fresh vegetables. Oh wow. If (in Australia) the major super markets that advertise "We're the fresh food peo…

If a salad contains any dressing, it's not a salad anymore, it's a dish.

The only exception I allow is vinegar + olive oil. That's pretty yummy salad dressing (especially with balsamic vinegar), and pretty healthy.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#95
post #18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other factor is cost. Healthy food costs more, often significantly more.

Stuff labeled "healthy" tends to be, but you can make healthy food for cheap. You can make a lot of meals out of a couple dollars in ingredients. Example: http://imgur.com/RYSLX [1] and http://imgur.com/xjJXR [2] That could be made for a dollar or two, and it's easy to make stuff like that quickly and with different ingredients. I'd feel pretty content eating like that every day, and most of the parts are things you…

Healthy, cheap, and time effective.

Pick two, at most two and a half.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#96
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot take life expectancy at birth as a model for how healthy adults are. That statistic is massively distorted by infant mortality (which is an astounding 13.3% for Afghanistan).

Actually yes you can and yes you should. Infants die in third-world countries because of lack of healthcare, but often because of weak immune system and other effects of poor health that children survive from in western countries. If you compare dogs bought from reputable breeders and puppy mills, you can't exclude all the puppies that die in the first year from a puppy mill and get a fair comparison. You can't exclu…

I think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that a high rate of child mortality is not an issue in and of itself. But if you're going to claim that life expectancy in Afghanistan is very low vs. the West, therefore the Western diet is healthier than Afghanistan's, and in the process ignore child mortality as a factor then you're entirely disingenuous.

As an example: if you take 2 groups of 10 people, 9 of which die at 70 of natural causes in group A while 1 dies at age 1 and 5 of which die at 90 of natural causes in group B while 5 die at age 1, the "life expectancy" of group A is 63.1 and group B is 45.5. But the average lifespan of adults is 70 in group A and 90 in group B. The health of adults is significantly higher in group B. The health of children is significantly higher in group A.

When many children die, the often touted "life expectancy" number plummets. And subsequently gets used in comparisons of health/activity/environment/etc of adults when in fact that "life expectancy" number is completely misleading when applied to adults.

Additionally, if one adult in group A lives to be 105, that outlier doesn't indicate a trending statistic.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Regarding obesity, exercise is far more important than diet. You can eat all kinds of, well, crap, and if you exercise, you'll still be physically fit and probably even look healthy." Can you support this? I feel like most things I've read and most of what I've learned myself while training has been that diet in fact is a much bigger factor, to a level of say 75%/25%. It's very hard to exercise enough to undo a bad…

Have any of you guys ever seen pictures of the Woodstock festival in the 60s? Everyone is skinny. It's something besides "The western diet" and meat-eating that's causing obesity to increase. A lot of diet news these days has the appearance of vegetarian activism with a severe case of confirmation bias, in that any study that remotely hints that meat eating is bad for health gets front page coverage. The exercise iss…

Or maybe there was a lot less industrial food around in the 60ies?

Seems McDonalds only started to grow in the early 60ies, and frozen pizza didn't take off till the 90ies according to this:

"through the 1980s, frozen pizza occupied an increasingly tight niche. Sales growth averaged a sluggish one percent a year, even with innovations such as French-bread and microwaveable pizzas." http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2005/3/...

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, then, what is the "Western diet" if it isn't what the Western people eat? (I see your point, though; it's been changing over time, and you're right: it is getting more and more processed and less balanced {and dare I say "healthy"}). Regarding obesity, exercise is far more important than diet. You can eat all kinds of, well, crap, and if you exercise, you'll still be physically fit and probably even look healthy.…

"Regarding obesity, exercise is far more important than diet. You can eat all kinds of, well, crap, and if you exercise, you'll still be physically fit and probably even look healthy." Can you support this? I feel like most things I've read and most of what I've learned myself while training has been that diet in fact is a much bigger factor, to a level of say 75%/25%. It's very hard to exercise enough to undo a bad…

he can't support it.

you're discussing the concept of "empty calories", just like alcohol has.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#99

Misleading title, it is not "western diet" what is bad for health, it is fast food, and sugar sweety food what is. What Americans were eating 70-50-30 years ago was healthy and "western". It has been people eating industrial foods instead of someone making the food what has changed. I use to look at obese people shopping cart and I see a lot of Coca Cola, pizza, industrial bread, industrial buns,cookies, chocolate,no…

So, then, what is the "Western diet" if it isn't what the Western people eat? (I see your point, though; it's been changing over time, and you're right: it is getting more and more processed and less balanced {and dare I say "healthy"}). Regarding obesity, exercise is far more important than diet. You can eat all kinds of, well, crap, and if you exercise, you'll still be physically fit and probably even look healthy.…

"Regarding obesity, exercise is far more important than diet."

When Gary Taubes surveyed the literature to find the evidence that exercise is useful for losing weight, what he found is that the scientific literature itself proves this statement is either not true or even slightly false. There aren't any studies where exercise has lead to persistent, significant (which I would define as taking someone from clinically obese to normal weight, not merely shaving 3% off of someone clinically obese) weight loss without a diet change. I have not seen any evidence to the contrary, I am not aware of any evidence that exercise on its own actually works for weight loss, let alone that exercise can wipe away making your diet even worse.

He also observes that it is pretty rare for people in practice to get serious about exercise, but leave their diet completely unchanged. If you start exercising consistently and cut out sugary soft drinks and lay off the potato chips, how you do know which thing did what?

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#100

Misleading title, it is not "western diet" what is bad for health, it is fast food, and sugar sweety food what is. What Americans were eating 70-50-30 years ago was healthy and "western". It has been people eating industrial foods instead of someone making the food what has changed. I use to look at obese people shopping cart and I see a lot of Coca Cola, pizza, industrial bread, industrial buns,cookies, chocolate,no…

So, then, what is the "Western diet" if it isn't what the Western people eat? (I see your point, though; it's been changing over time, and you're right: it is getting more and more processed and less balanced {and dare I say "healthy"}). Regarding obesity, exercise is far more important than diet. You can eat all kinds of, well, crap, and if you exercise, you'll still be physically fit and probably even look healthy.…

The exercise theory doesn't make much sense. Old people would all have to grow fat because they can't exercise well anymore. Also I think most systems in nature are optimized for saving energy - humans would be a strange exception if they could only be healthy by wasting energy.
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