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How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

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Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#61

Post by jmatt »

run4yourlives wrote: post #43
jmatt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the WHO information it appears that deaths due to intentional injuries are relatively low in comparison to most other forms of disease and illness in Afghanistan: http://www.who.int/healthinfo/global_burden_disease/estimate... Even when looking at Males 15-59. Though it should be noted these numbers are from 2004. Additionally, I really have no sense of how accurate these numbers are.

War, especially when it lasts for a generation, causes a lot more than gun shot wounds.

I agree. It's horrible and it directly affects health and disease. I don't know how to quantify that, at least with respect to this discussion. I was replying specifically to the parent comment and whether intentional injuries were skewing the mortality numbers.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#62

Post by electromagnetic »

mdemare wrote: post #32
aantix wrote: post #10

Am I the only one that felt like he was holding the Afghanistan people up as a model of health because they lack fat? Their life expectancy is a mere ~44 years ( http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_dyn_le... ). Neighboring Pakistan is 66 years ( http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_dyn_le... ).

You cannot take life expectancy at birth as a model for how healthy adults are. That statistic is massively distorted by infant mortality (which is an astounding 13.3% for Afghanistan).

Actually yes you can and yes you should. Infants die in third-world countries because of lack of healthcare, but often because of weak immune system and other effects of poor health that children survive from in western countries.

If you compare dogs bought from reputable breeders and puppy mills, you can't exclude all the puppies that die in the first year from a puppy mill and get a fair comparison. You can't exclude puppies died from both suppliers and get a fair comparison. The only fair way to compare is between total numbers.

Life expectancy is a product of health and health care. The unhealthy live longer in places like the UK and US than the healthy in many places of the world. When the west has people with AIDS outliving people in the middle-east and africa with no recognizable condition, then those places cannot and should not ever be used in reference to a healthy place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercentenarian#Verified_super...

Do you see an Afghan? No you see people from the allegedly 'unhealthy' western countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centenarian#Numbers_of_centenar...

Again do you see any Afghans? Do you even see any middle-east or African countries with accountable estimates? No.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#63

Post by SMrF »

kgo wrote: post #48
viggity wrote: post #30

I've been overweight my entire life, and honestly, I blame the Surgeon General in the 1980s for telling my mom that feeding me low fat foods (which end up being high carb foods) will make me skinny. Everyone believed this cargo cult "science" and it has had a devastating impact for hundreds of millions of people.

I'm asking this sincerely, but don't people from traditionally healthy Asian countries eat a hell of a lot of rice? That's my first thought every time someone mentions how bad carbs are. But I have trouble finding any non-antecdotal data. I want to believe the obesity problem is more of a portion control thing, for example, when McDonald's opened, did a normal adult actually eat a hamburger and small fries for lunch…

"According to the latest health ministry figures, however, 29% of Japanese men aged 20 to 60 are overweight - an increase of 5% in only five years and a long way off its 2010 target of below 15%"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/mar/02/japan.justinmccu...

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#64

Post by pnathan »

jseliger wrote: post #31
simonsarris wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my friends ask about nutrition, explaining fat is the very first thing I try to do. Eating fat does not necessarily make you fat, nor is it in itself a bad at all. Many fats are among the best things for your brain and heart. At the same time, fat-free foods can quite easily be bullshit. A pound of sugar is fat-free, after all, but has an insane calorific value. (110 per oz) Sugar is 100% total carbs. A ounce of…

This is one reason I find Michael Pollan's work so interesting, like "Unhappy Meals": http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.... (advice: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.") and In Defense of Food : http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Food-Eaters-Manifesto/dp/01431... . His basic point is that "food science" doesn't know very much, is heavily politicized, and that we don't really know on a deep l…

Put another way, Pollan recommends looking at more of a systems-level view of food, instead of a purely components-based view.

I do know that some people have raised issues with his science.

Haven't heard too many complaints about his general takeaways though...

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#65

Post by ezy »

mkr-hn wrote: post #18
city41 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other factor is cost. Healthy food costs more, often significantly more.

Stuff labeled "healthy" tends to be, but you can make healthy food for cheap. You can make a lot of meals out of a couple dollars in ingredients. Example: http://imgur.com/RYSLX [1] and http://imgur.com/xjJXR [2] That could be made for a dollar or two, and it's easy to make stuff like that quickly and with different ingredients. I'd feel pretty content eating like that every day, and most of the parts are things you…

Have you tried to eat this way regularly, and did you end up spending less? How long did you last?

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#66

Post by pnathan »

houk wrote: post #20
johnny22 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or we just make healthy food taste better.

healthy good DOES taste better. you've just been raised on rubbish so therefor you think that is how all food should taste. I was the same. I hated peas, carrots, sweet potato, that sort of thing. A few years ago I was at a friends place and she grew all her own produce. It was the first time I had ever tasted fresh vegetables. Oh wow. If (in Australia) the major super markets that advertise "We're the fresh food peo…

I used to think radishes were boring and sorta yuck.

Then I grew a few at my own place, for a lark. Well, that was an explosion of taste I won't long forget.

Pro tip: Fresh radishes are nothing like the dried up junk in salads.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#67

Post by latortuga »

beaumartinez wrote: post #52
kgo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm asking this sincerely, but don't people from traditionally healthy Asian countries eat a hell of a lot of rice? That's my first thought every time someone mentions how bad carbs are. But I have trouble finding any non-antecdotal data. I want to believe the obesity problem is more of a portion control thing, for example, when McDonald's opened, did a normal adult actually eat a hamburger and small fries for lunch…

Asians eat a lot of rice, but then again, they are a physically active people. (Please excuse the gross generalization.) (Weight gain/loss is ultimately a simple equation: calories in ‒ calories out . Eat more but exercise more and they'll cancel out.)

This is an appealing take but ultimately oversimplified. Calories in equals calories out, this is self evident. Assuming that calories in has no effect on calories out or vice versa is where you make the mistake - they are dependent variables and quite obviously so. Don't eat much and you get cold and lethargic, go work out and you work up an appetite.

Saying you're fat because you eat too much is like saying you're an alcoholic because you drink too much. It's true but it doesn't say anything about how to solve the problem and it mixes up cause and effect - in the former case you're eating more because you're getting fat (due to insulin resistance, caused by chronically high consumption of carbohydrates according to some or due to chronically high consumption of fructose according to others) and in the latter case you're drinking more because you're dependent upon alcohol.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#68

Post by kgo »

SMrF wrote: post #63
kgo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm asking this sincerely, but don't people from traditionally healthy Asian countries eat a hell of a lot of rice? That's my first thought every time someone mentions how bad carbs are. But I have trouble finding any non-antecdotal data. I want to believe the obesity problem is more of a portion control thing, for example, when McDonald's opened, did a normal adult actually eat a hamburger and small fries for lunch…

"According to the latest health ministry figures, however, 29% of Japanese men aged 20 to 60 are overweight - an increase of 5% in only five years and a long way off its 2010 target of below 15%" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/mar/02/japan.justinmccu...

That article tends to re-enforce my line of thinking, that Surgeon General's advice of less-fat, more-carbs, and more exercise isn't cargo cult science.

Some of the conclusions from that article:

+ [H]ealth experts have warned that dietary changes, coupled with an increasingly sedentary lifestyle, are storing up trouble for Japanese children who, in their taste for burgers and instant noodles, have more in common with the average western teenager than with their tofu-loving grandparents.

+ "The Japanese used to eat food high in protein, but over the past few decades there has been a shift towards eating more animal fat, and that is at the root of the problem," said Shinobu Matsui.

+ [The Health Japan 21 program] has drawn up nutrition charts aimed at those most at risk of obesity - men, children and people living alone - encouraging them to eat more rice and vegetables and to cut down on meat.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#69

Post by mike_organon »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #14
mikecarlucci wrote: post #3

It's scary that KFC and processed food is now equated with "Western diet." Michael Pollan says it best: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."

The article is mostly about Inuits. Their traditional diet was pretty much 100% meat and was healthy. So maybe Michael Pollan's advice has to be reduced to "Eat food. Not too much."

I think the "not too much" is also redundant. If you eat bacon and eggs, your hunger will tell you when to stop. It's the non-food (sugar and grains) that mess up our hunger signals (mainly insulin).

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#70

Post by tomkarlo »

beaumartinez wrote: post #49
forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #23

Misleading title, it is not "western diet" what is bad for health, it is fast food, and sugar sweety food what is. What Americans were eating 70-50-30 years ago was healthy and "western". It has been people eating industrial foods instead of someone making the food what has changed. I use to look at obese people shopping cart and I see a lot of Coca Cola, pizza, industrial bread, industrial buns,cookies, chocolate,no…

So, then, what is the "Western diet" if it isn't what the Western people eat? (I see your point, though; it's been changing over time, and you're right: it is getting more and more processed and less balanced {and dare I say "healthy"}). Regarding obesity, exercise is far more important than diet. You can eat all kinds of, well, crap, and if you exercise, you'll still be physically fit and probably even look healthy.…

"Regarding obesity, exercise is far more important than diet. You can eat all kinds of, well, crap, and if you exercise, you'll still be physically fit and probably even look healthy."

Can you support this? I feel like most things I've read and most of what I've learned myself while training has been that diet in fact is a much bigger factor, to a level of say 75%/25%. It's very hard to exercise enough to undo a bad food decision, and even if you do exercise a ton, that's not going to reverse vitamin and nutrient deficiencies that may result from eating predominantly processed foods.

Moreover, the type of food you're eating has at least as much effect as its theoretical caloric content. 300 calories of raw carrots is not equal to 300 calories of potato chips, as far as your body is concerned. We're not calorimeters.

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