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Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

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Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#391
This is why I really go out of my way to try and dissipate the anxiety as much possible. And because I feel anxiety myself when I interview people, so I remember that we may share that perspective and we'd both have a better conversation if we could relax a bit.

My interviews therefore end up being conversational, and definitely non-confrontational. I want to hire someone who the team will get along with, who knows what they are doing, but in the end I have to remember that if we hire them I'd prefer we didn't start off our relationship with an over-the-top technical interview.

So far I've been successful at finding good candidates this way. Maybe it's just luck. But I don't think leetcode interviewing is the only way to get well-qualified employees.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#392

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

That's why I think take-home exercises are a much better way to evaluate candidates. Give them the exercise and enough time and you will figure out:

1) How good they are 2) How much they actually care about the job offer -- the more detail and the more passion they put in the exercise, the more into the job they are.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#393

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

That's why I think take-home exercises are a much better way to evaluate candidates. Give them the exercise and enough time and you will figure out: 1) How good they are 2) How much they actually care about the job offer -- the more detail and the more passion they put in the exercise, the more into the job they are.

Totally agreed. I've been in the position to evaluate several take-home exercises during the years and they always produced good results

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more alternatives than "look the part" and "leetcode". If I'm hiring a software engineer, I'm not hiring for how they look - the compiler doesn't care. And I'm (probably) not hiring for the ability to solve leetcode problems, either - of the work I would assign to someone I'm hiring, almost zero of it looks like leetcode problems. What I need is a way that tells whether the person I'm interviewing can actua…

> What I need is a way that tells whether the person I'm interviewing can actually do the work that I'm hiring them to do. Maybe I should ask them about that. Maybe I should give them some problems similar to the actual work. Would you mind sharing with us how to draw the rest of the owl? Look, I don't even want to defend leetcode here, but it is a struggle to find questions that are: 1) Correlated with the actual wo…

The best I've ever seen is the way my current boss does it. We do a two-hour interview (they've already passed a phone interview before we bring them in). We spend the first half hour just talking to them personally.

Then we give them a piece of code on paper. It's fairly simple - half a page. The function name is foo(). It's written in C#, but we don't expect them to actually know any C# details. The function takes an array of Strings as input, and returns an int. The questions are, what values does it expect for the Strings, what value does it return, what would they name the function, and what can go wrong (what exceptions can it throw - but we don't expect them to know the details of C# exceptions, so what might cause exception-like circumstances). This shouldn't take more than half an hour.

Also, it's the same code for every candidate, and we've seen a few dozen over the years, so we are fairly calibrated on how a quality candidate should do.

Then we ask them to write some code on the whiteboard. We give them a simple problem (again, same problem for every candidate). They can use any language they want. We don't expect them to be a compiler - we don't care if they get the parameters a bit wrong on a function call, as long as the code would be sound if the system accepted the syntax they expect. Again, this should take half an hour.

Then we give them a simple design problem. How would you design software to do this? It's a problem that is not rigidly specified, so they can have to flesh out the requirements (hey, welcome to the real world). It's got enough corner cases that we can ask them about one that they skipped, and watch them try to modify the design to handle it. We don't expect perfection - there is no perfect answer for this question. But we want to see them have some kind of reasonable taste or sanity in their design, and some ability to iterate the design as more requirements emerge. Once again, this takes half an hour. They're not done with the problem at the end of half an hour, but we've seen enough to know how they did.

Other than allowing them to ask any questions they want, that's it.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#395
post #377

People bomb, including good people. That is sadly part of the system. Once I had this candidate. Damn, I know my questions are deceptively simple on purpose, but he literally couldn't do anything. Not even a trivial brute force. Not even any related simple knowledge questions. Couldn't tell an average from a median. The only good thing I could write in the feedback was "seems to know some basic syntax". It was quite…

Interestingly, there's a famous study showing those doing the judging "can't think when hungry" either. (Or, at least can't think unbiasedly).[1]

[1] https://www.pnas.org/content/108/17/6889

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#396
post #6

Huh, the only successful interviews I have are the ones where I'm burned out after a long, fruitless, frustrating job search. And so I walk in assuming the interview will be a waste of time and just not caring anymore. That's when I get an offer.

+1. Either this, or I have an offer in hand and so I don't have to care anymore.

The role of anxiety in interviewing became very clear to me during a season when I failed all my interviews until I got my first (and a very good) offer. Suddenly I started passing all of them. It was night and day. I was very surprised having always had much longer and frustrating recruiting processes.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech seems to be the only field that does these dumb types of interviews. Accounting, law, medicine etc seems to work well without these filters. Why are tech interviews so stupid?

So you're advocating a license to practice software development? Because the three fields you mention are all licensed.

Not a license to practice, but how about some sort of exam I can pass that would let me never have to do the whiteboard dance ever again?

As it is, I'm basically studying for an unknown and nowhere near standard "certification", more or less, in the form of the technical interview, with only an inkling of what I might have to study for every single interview I go on.

I guarantee my career has been stunted because I delay my job search because I just don't want to go through that bullshit all over again, and stick with jobs long after I've stopped being passionate about them, despite there being a huge demand for software engineers.

Not everyone has to take the standardized exam, but if you do, you can show that to someone and they go "okay, I'm going to skip the technical pop quiz, let's move on to other things".

That's supposed to be what my degree was for, but apparently no one trusts that anymore, so why did I waste the time and money in the first place?

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#398
post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bomb on technical interviews the same way because my mind just freezes and can't get through even simple problems. I had the same question you mention. "This is a problem a paper was written on, are you expecting me to derive a whole paper from first principles in half an hour, or are you expecting me to have seen it before? If it's the latter, why not let me Google, as I normally would?" I feel that saying "I woul…

The funny thing about this is: They're not looking for someone that is eager enough to show they're willing to work through it even though they have no idea to proceed. They are looking for someone that got lucky enough to be ready to answer that particular problem, but won't stand up to them that the ask was a bit too much for a reasonable interview that is intended to see if you're a fit for the company and skilled…

Exactly agreed, and because my inclination is to say "I've never used this in previous jobs and will never use it here", I don't think it's useful for me to be interviewing for jobs.

A friend of mine, when asked to implement an AVL tree, actually asked an interviewer when the last time he had to implement an AVL tree on the job was. He wasn't hired.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#399

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

I was on the other side - I flew out to FB during a vacation earlier this year. I got there, could explain the solution but something was off and I kept losing the thread when I went to convert it to actual code. The interviewers didn’t know I’d gotten a call from my cat sitter that morning and one of my cats had to go in for an emergency check up. (He ended up being fine but didn’t know that at the time). Later that…

Sorry to hear! I have a similar (sort of) story.

While waiting at UBER reception area I got a call from a "tax office" telling me about suspected tax fraud transactions (it was a fraudster call but imagine me at that moment) a minute before I was called in for an interview.

Yeah, I was really kicking ass at that interview (NOT!)

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#400
post #275
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She will just say that the process is designed to minimize false positives and the expense of more false negatives. A bad hire is more expensive than a no hire. The problem is this isn't what gets you the smartest people on the planet. A small number might be interested in DS&A to that level, but most are not. They will learn enough to know how to google what they need and move on to what they are interested in. Smar…

> She will just say that the process is designed to minimize false positives and the expense of more false negatives. A bad hire is more expensive than a no hire. That's what they keep saying. However, it remains to be proven that regurgitating answers on a whiteboard in 45 minutes implies that the candidate is not a false negative, or even a true positive to begin with.

I've seen people say it's like a form of IQ test and I agree with that.

Generally speaking, I think more intelligent people will have an easier time learning the patterns in algorithms.

It's not the best filter, but it's easy to see why it's an attractive option for companies.

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