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Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

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Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel in the tech industry, networking and knowing people only gets you so far - typically just to the whiteboard interview. Then you have to solve the leetcode problems just like everyone else. Especially so in larger companies. FWIW, all of my friends who somehow managed to get into FAANG or other top tech companies swear that were they to go through the interview again, odds are they would fail. This despite all…

Eh, I got my job at a very early stage startup through a friend I met on Twitter. The "interview" was a chat with the (reasonably technical) CEO, where we talked about political philosophy for 45 minutes, then I said something about "oh, I should probably tell you about my experience and resume," so we went over that briefly. No coding challenge or anything. I assume my case is an extreme outlier, though. But yeah. "…

It s not, I ve been interviewed that way and interviewed others that way. Many times it led to horrible mistakes so now I give a simple project to do at home with no deadline.

If a guy can do well that kind of well rounded project, even by cheating, I want him and his network all the same.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel in the tech industry, networking and knowing people only gets you so far - typically just to the whiteboard interview. Then you have to solve the leetcode problems just like everyone else. Especially so in larger companies. FWIW, all of my friends who somehow managed to get into FAANG or other top tech companies swear that were they to go through the interview again, odds are they would fail. This despite all…

Eh, I got my job at a very early stage startup through a friend I met on Twitter. The "interview" was a chat with the (reasonably technical) CEO, where we talked about political philosophy for 45 minutes, then I said something about "oh, I should probably tell you about my experience and resume," so we went over that briefly. No coding challenge or anything. I assume my case is an extreme outlier, though. But yeah. "…

Startups and smaller companies are a different story. One of my friends got a job at a startup by virtue of standing in line at a cafe holding a programming book, and the (non-technical) founder standing behind him hired him after a quick chat.

Bigger companies often don't let you through like that though. My friends are constantly offering to refer me to roles at their companies, but every one of them would still involve going through the whiteboard interview ritual. For now, I'm not taking them up on the offers because I'm not confident I'll pass the leetcode rounds.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#143

I wish I had an agreeable way out of this field. I'm not going to critize the current interview process, it has its advantages and disadvantages and theres a reason it's used, but if its shown me anything it's that I chose the wrong career.

It's interesting to me that the interview process of our field makes you question your choice of career. It seems like such a small thing compared to everything else.

I absolutely despise the interview process, but there's no question to me that I choose the right career.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#144
Here's the study: http://chrisparnin.me/pdf/stress_FSE_20.pdf

They asked students to find the "Longest Substring Without Repeating Characters".

For the formats: "We created two interview settings: public setting and private setting (see Figure 1). In the public setting, wearing an eye-tracker, participants solved the technical interview problem in the presence of an experimenter. The participant was instructed to talk-aloud while solving the task, which is a standard practice in technical interviews [28, 47]. The lab space contained a whiteboard at the front of the room. An experimenter was situated near the participant for the entire session without interrupting participants’ thought process. If a participant asked for clarifica- tion, the response was brief. For example, if a participant asked, “Does this look correct”, the experimenter was instructed to reply, “Complete to the best of your ability”.

In the private setting, participants solved the technical interview problem in isolation. Participant were provided a private room with a whiteboard. Participants were informed that the experimenter will step out the room and will not return while they are solving the problem. Thus, they had to make sure that there is no questions left for them. When the participant was ready to begin the task, they wear the eye-trackers, the door was closed, and the participant worked in privacy, until the task was completed within allotted time. After the experiment, we clarified with participants if they had any uncertainty about the problem they just solved."

They ran a randomized controlled trial on the effect of having another person in the room, which is interesting. It does not, however, show that these interviews fail to assess software skills.

This is also essentially the worst case for having another person in the room: they are completely superfluous, just watching you, not helping, not communicating, not collaborating. Not even saying things that might make you more at ease.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#145
post #88

I fear there's a movement to get rid of leetcode interviews and I'm against it. What's the alternative? We go back to "you have to look the part", nepotism, credentialism, and other such BS in other industries. A data structures and algorithms test is fair and objective. You can objectively get all the challenges correct and then there's little reason to not hire you. Compare that to interviewing for, say, an investm…

The study in the article suggests that the same whiteboard question done in private rather than with a judge in the room has all of the benefits with none of the disadvantages in terms of the candidates software skill.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#146
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually a little scared to leave my current FAANG gig for that exact reason tbh. I'm fairly certain I wouldn't make it back in the door without more leetcode grinding + repeated loops than I'm willing to do at this point in my career. Plus, stack on top of that, I've seen how the sausage is made. I've done 90+ interviews on the other side. At the end of the day, it comes down to how lucky you got in the loop. I'…

What is the lowers/raises approach? Google isn’t up to the job (pun was not initially intended, but here we are).

I don't know what company they're referring to but at Amazon, the criteria for hiring someone is that interviewee would be better than 50% of the people currently doing that role at the company. They should 'raise the bar' in order to be hired.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#147
post #11

It was made the clearest to me when I interviewed a colleague who had left to another company and two years later was interviewing to return. I knew he knew everything and had the skills for the job because, well, I know him, I’d worked with him before. He’d done this very job previously. Yet he still performed terribly in the interview and (rightly or wrongly) I had to base my evaluation on my knowledge of him rathe…

I feel in the tech industry, networking and knowing people only gets you so far - typically just to the whiteboard interview. Then you have to solve the leetcode problems just like everyone else. Especially so in larger companies. FWIW, all of my friends who somehow managed to get into FAANG or other top tech companies swear that were they to go through the interview again, odds are they would fail. This despite all…

Tech seems to be the only field that does these dumb types of interviews. Accounting, law, medicine etc seems to work well without these filters. Why are tech interviews so stupid?

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That and debate gave me the ability to just start a sentence without knowing where it will end and then talk my way to a conclusion that sounds like it makes sense You're effectively advocating for more bullshit. The problem is that this works in the first place - we shouldn't be rewarding it.

What's the point of asking these sorts of questions? Typically to try to get a sense of how somebody thinks and what sort of rapport they have with the interviewer while problem solving, not that they get to the "correct" answer. I think they have some utility because this is a common occurrence when dealing with clients.

I call this a lie. We lie to play games to attempt to get inside someone's head. Sounds like armchair psychology to create some sense of "culture"

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#149

> In short, the findings suggest that companies are missing out on really good programmers because those programmers aren’t good at writing on a whiteboard and explaining their work out loud while coding. In most of my programming jobs, explaining your work was most of the job and writing code was less important. The whiteboard environment is a bit unnatural but I don’t want to hire someone who gets the right answer…

I would definitely not want to work for you, I think there's something deeply ineffective when most of the job is explaining your code. I say that as someone who cares a lot about writing easy to read code and has no problem explaining it. Also, I'm very bad at solving a problem while being required to think out loud.

The skill of explaining your work is a very important one in practically any creative problem solving field. This only increases as the technical complexity of the problems faced increases.

Sometimes this explaining happens in textual format, like code reviews and design specifications, but often it happens verbally. Absent an explanation, it's hard to build consensus among the parties involved (co-workers, users, management) that your solution (as manifested by the resulting code) is the right one, and for anything non-trivial, you surely can't expect others to just assume that it is the right one.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#150

"Technical interviews are feared and hated in the industry, and it turns out that these interview techniques may also be hurting the industry’s ability to find and hire skilled software engineers." It doesn't hurt "the industry", there's a competitive edge to hiring otherwise superior engineers that are passed up by poor hiring practices at certain companies. Not everybody needs to work at FAANG, or worse, companies…

I just went through a job search and this is what I landed on.

Every CRUD webapp startup thinks they need FAANG-like hiring processes and fucking suck at it.

I ended up taking a job that was mostly a no-interview process. Two calls to talk about the fit.

They looked at my job history (gasp!) talked to some references (double gasp!) verified my ability to code with my github contributes (omfg I can't breathe!) and offered me a position.

Less money, but definitely less bullshit. It was a good choice for me.

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