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Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

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Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear more about how you do that, and what you try to select for instead.

Comprehension. Ironically, I just started writing a blog post about it 10 minutes ago. To summarize, I try and get the candidate to discuss tradeoffs between different approaches to common situations that the candidate should be familiar with. For example: Should GetUserById(int userId) return a null, or throw an exception, when there is no user with the ID? Explain the tradeoffs; or explain why each approach is bett…

Any open ended question like

> Explain the tradeoffs

will benefit greatly from being able to synthesize a bunch of information out of some simple base. Yea you need to know the technical details but being able to explain tradeoffs is more abstract and the OPs method will just lead to a better answer here.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#342
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've been arrogant for years and you know what? So have I. I and many, many people in this industry have been doing this for years. What's different from you and many other people is that you admit and face your bias rather than justify it. I'm seriously curious what google interview board members have to say about this study. People like Gayle Laakmaan have been saying things to justify the whole process for years…

I'm not a googler (but I've interviewed there) and I disagree somewhat with the original premise. I think whiteboarding does filter out bad candidates but also filters out good candidates who fail the anxiety test. Google, with their massive pipeline, probably doesn't care about the false negatives enough to change; they still find enough people to hire. It's the companies with smaller pipelines that need to scoop up…

In general, hiring practices probably optimize for filtering out bad (or at least somewhat speculative) hires over passing on a potentially really good candidate (especially if there are any concerns to go along with the overall positives).

Of course, if the pipeline is massive (whether it's jobs, schools, etc.) this tendency gets amped up even more and anyone who doesn't come across as pretty much perfect on all dimensions--whether they are or not--is going to get dinged.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech seems to be the only field that does these dumb types of interviews. Accounting, law, medicine etc seems to work well without these filters. Why are tech interviews so stupid?

So you're advocating a license to practice software development? Because the three fields you mention are all licensed.

The whiteboard standard already acts like a de facto license.

Algorithmic/data structure more theory-oriented problems are unrepresentative of "actual work" and are annoying, but what's more annoying is how the process is 1) opaque, and 2) repetitive. So you end up with candidates grinding through 80+ Leetcode problems to both master the skills necessary to ace these problems, as well as covering as many commonly-asked problems in a bid to game the system by preempting their interviewees questions. Goodhart's law abounds. This basically makes the process into an interview version of standardized testing. But- despite the standard prep process and a standard bank of questions, it can all easily fall apart because of subjective interviewer opinion, and so all the preparation is for naught. Candidates end up having to do the interview gauntlet for each company they apply at.

So standardize it. Put out clear, industry-standard rubrics for how one's performance is graded. Don't say "we only want to know how you think" and then ding candidates for not getting the right solution. You obviously care about the right answer as much as the thought process- don't be disingenuous about it. Maybe even standardize the level of difficulty of problems. And most of all:

Make this process a one-time thing.

Or rather, a once every five year thing. Outsource the ds/a interviewing section to a third party testing organization, like what Triplebyte is attempting to do, and have the actual interview be personalized to the company. Ask domain specific questions, relevant experience questions, system design, and culture fit questions during the company interview. And leave the DS/A portion be akin to the licensure tests that other engineering disciplines and STEM professions already have.

Software engineers may hate credentialism, but if it's a credential that you only need to take once or twice in a decade, then it's already far superior to the current system that forces candidates to undergo this each time they change jobs.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#344
As a hiring manager the test that I believe works best is a code reading exercise. This helps reduce anxiety or the effects of anxiety (fear has a very big negative effect on creative thinking)

I take a small fairly self contained function from the existing code base. Give them 10 minutes to read the function.

You can also add a few actual bugs into the function if you like to see if they are picked up.

I then generally ask them a couple of questions. First to step through what the function is doing. Then what the larger context of the function might be and finally if they have any thoughts on improving the function.

It's a quick test usually under 20 minutes you can even hand it over to non technical interviewers if you describe what kind of answers they should be looking for.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#345

There is a lot of anecdotes in the comments about these interview processes. The ones with the best data are the company themselves, especially those who interview thousands of candidates a year. These companies (e.g., all FANG) have enough data to assess which interviewer, which interview questions and which interview process have positive correlation (and even causation) with future employee performance. And they c…

"A new study from North Carolina State University and Microsoft finds that..."

Microsoft is studying this, because they realize that they don't in fact have "the best data".

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#346
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The small N is addressed by the authors. To acquire a larger N would mean recruiting more participants, which would require either compensation/extra credit or rely on people volunteering ~1 hour of their time. Likewise, collecting that data would require time and money. It is an time/resource issue with human research. You can require a small N and get some results or require a large N and not have enough funding to…

Of course I understand why the research has N=48, my question is whether it is adequate to fully support the claim in the title. I really don't know. I'm not a scientist or sociologist. My intuition tells me that it seems small, and using a population of college students intuitively feels like it wouldn't adequately capture the diversity of professional software developers, but maybe it does in this case.

It is; however, my next understanding is this is why we are seeing a rise in meta-analysis papers. It is difficult to acquire a sufficient N with a single study. As a result, you see authors consolidating all of the papers within a topic and discussing the trends seen in each.

However, research also has issues with reproducibility. No one will publish work that was simply a repeat of someone else work. Researchers have to twist or add something. It is a discussed issue, but no one in power has made attempts to rectify it.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is the king of assessing how much you want to work for the company. The recruiter will place a huge emphasis on nailing their Leadership Principles, and coming up with stories from your work to demonstrate you embody the Principles. They will even tell you that specific interviewers have specific LPs they will probe on, but in the actual interview they ask very veiled questions and you're supposed to know that…

is there a centralized place with information like this but for other companies as well?

Glassdoor? Maybe, not sure if that is exactly what you are looking for..

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#348
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She will just say that the process is designed to minimize false positives and the expense of more false negatives. A bad hire is more expensive than a no hire. That's what they keep saying. However, it remains to be proven that regurgitating answers on a whiteboard in 45 minutes implies that the candidate is not a false negative, or even a true positive to begin with.

It means you're someone willing to spend two to three months on your life sucking a little dick for a chance to work at FAANG... the companies so good they've recommended 15 vacuum cleaners after purchasing one. How many hands do they think I actually have.

The answer is sixteen, you'd know that if you'd spent a bit of time practicing your addition interview questions.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#349

The only good way to assess a candidate is to hire them. It's sad, but true. Some of the brightest and best will not even be able to code with someone else even paying the remotest attention to them. Interviews used to take account of this 15 years ago. Google came along and destroyed this. I remember talking to a Google interviewer and I came up with a better solution than they expected. Since my solution was non-st…

I used to interview at Google and think you're misunderstanding why you failed the interview.

If the solution works and is better, then the interviewer should recognize that. I have this happen often when I use a new-to-me question (well, not often better, but similar enough performance). Even if the interviewer failed you for something they shouldn't have, it'd raise a flag in the hiring committee if you passed the other 3-4 interview sessions and the committee should look closer at the one failing interview to see what's going on.

And I have no idea what you mean by the "tools" and "how to operate them" being false and failing.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#350
post #138

It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us? Even though the majority of that stuff will likely have zero impact on your day to day work? That's all there is, really. I've had no proble…

> It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us

Or in other words it tests how much free time you have to spend on unpaid activity, which can be a good proxy for ageism.

No kids or mortgage? Then you're a perfect candidate to spend countless unpaid hours studying for months, going through mock interviews, reading books, testing your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us.

This works well for tech companies because many don't care about your experience with languages and frameworks of yore. More so whether you can put in 80 hour work weeks.

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