Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#161

Post by MattGaiser » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

ironman1478 wrote: post #98

decafninja wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel in the tech industry, networking and knowing people only gets you so far - typically just to the whiteboard interview. Then you have to solve the leetcode problems just like everyone else. Especially so in larger companies. FWIW, all of my friends who somehow managed to get into FAANG or other top tech companies swear that were they to go through the interview again, odds are they would fail. This despite all…

I don't understand this obsession with leetcode style questions specifically. I just got a job at a FAANG on an algorithm heavy team and all they asked me was linked lists, some basic graph questions, and some basic (and I mean really basic, high school non-calc level) vector math. I think just having a rock solid understanding of the basics will help much more than trying to grind questions and memorize patterns.

> I think just having a rock solid understanding of the basics will help much more than trying to grind questions and memorize patterns.

It isn’t about memorizing patterns, but about hopefully spotting the exact question.

A friend is currently interviewing for a FAANG and the recruiter flat out told him that his best chance of passing was to do a pile of previously seen questions for that FAANG and hopefully he gets it again in the interview.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#162

Post by lostcolony » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

aswanson wrote: post #147

decafninja wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel in the tech industry, networking and knowing people only gets you so far - typically just to the whiteboard interview. Then you have to solve the leetcode problems just like everyone else. Especially so in larger companies. FWIW, all of my friends who somehow managed to get into FAANG or other top tech companies swear that were they to go through the interview again, odds are they would fail. This despite all…

Tech seems to be the only field that does these dumb types of interviews. Accounting, law, medicine etc seems to work well without these filters. Why are tech interviews so stupid?

So you're advocating a license to practice software development? Because the three fields you mention are all licensed.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#163

Post by rainyMammoth » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #90

whatever1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having multiple respectable people that can vouch for you is a much better performance predictor than a 1-day interview. Same reason that recommendation letters are more important than GRE tests for the ones seeking PhD studies.

Hiring primarily based on references almost guarantees bias. White engineers will tend to know more white engineers. Asian engineers will tend to know more Asian engineers.

that is not bias, but rather a lack of diversity

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#164

Post by adamredwoods » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

I get massive anxiety interviewing for tech companies, and I've been doing it for many years. The worst interviews are the "trivia quiz" questions that are either correct (according to them) or incorrect. There's no discussion of how things work and no frame of reference or anything. For example, when I interviewed at Amazon coming from Microsoft, they asked me lots of Javascript 'trick' questions even though I told them I was using C# day-to-day. I knew most of the questions, but got caught up on a couple of JS 'tricks' that I just couldn't recall at the time.

Sadly, it's all a game, but the good thing is that interviewing is a skill and can be improved with continued practice.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#165

Post by non-entity » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

gouggoug wrote: post #143

non-entity wrote: post #116

I wish I had an agreeable way out of this field. I'm not going to critize the current interview process, it has its advantages and disadvantages and theres a reason it's used, but if its shown me anything it's that I chose the wrong career.

It's interesting to me that the interview process of our field makes you question your choice of career. It seems like such a small thing compared to everything else. I absolutely despise the interview process, but there's no question to me that I choose the right career.

It's just part of it I suppose. My particular strengths and abilities aren't what companies are really selecting for. This type of interview process just kinda supports that. Of course things are more complicated than that, like I said though I just mean it's a component.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#166

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

javert wrote: post #79

erentz wrote: post #11

It was made the clearest to me when I interviewed a colleague who had left to another company and two years later was interviewing to return. I knew he knew everything and had the skills for the job because, well, I know him, I’d worked with him before. He’d done this very job previously. Yet he still performed terribly in the interview and (rightly or wrongly) I had to base my evaluation on my knowledge of him rathe…

> If you want a job and good career progression the best advice has to be prioritize making friends with lots of people Getting good at interviewing should also be a priority, and is doable. Getting good at interviewing is largely about developing (a) genuine programming skill; and b) at least some people/communication skill. When you have those skills, you have less anxiety about the interview, and can perform well.

[deleted]

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#167

Post by kmonsen » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

alkibiades wrote: post #84

goostavos wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually a little scared to leave my current FAANG gig for that exact reason tbh. I'm fairly certain I wouldn't make it back in the door without more leetcode grinding + repeated loops than I'm willing to do at this point in my career. Plus, stack on top of that, I've seen how the sausage is made. I've done 90+ interviews on the other side. At the end of the day, it comes down to how lucky you got in the loop. I'…

idk if it’s just luck. i’ve had loops in college where i failed them. but then later in my career i had times where i got every company i interviewed at. Excessive preparation was the key difference. I do think luck plays a big part but i don’t think it’s the only factor, or even the biggest. (maybe 2nd biggest)

Yeah, I'm 40+ but takes the time to prepare well for interviews and that has been the key for me. Gotten job offers from all the FAANG's without being very smart. Just go on leetcode and practice for a few months when needed.

This does very unfairly skew towards people like me without kids that can take the time to do this.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#168

Post by AnimalMuppet » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

zelly wrote: post #88

I fear there's a movement to get rid of leetcode interviews and I'm against it. What's the alternative? We go back to "you have to look the part", nepotism, credentialism, and other such BS in other industries. A data structures and algorithms test is fair and objective. You can objectively get all the challenges correct and then there's little reason to not hire you. Compare that to interviewing for, say, an investm…

There are more alternatives than "look the part" and "leetcode". If I'm hiring a software engineer, I'm not hiring for how they look - the compiler doesn't care. And I'm (probably) not hiring for the ability to solve leetcode problems, either - of the work I would assign to someone I'm hiring, almost zero of it looks like leetcode problems.

What I need is a way that tells whether the person I'm interviewing can actually do the work that I'm hiring them to do. Maybe I should ask them about that. Maybe I should give them some problems similar to the actual work.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#169

Post by MattGaiser » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

leafboi wrote: post #159

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #115

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

You've been arrogant for years and you know what? So have I. I and many, many people in this industry have been doing this for years. What's different from you and many other people is that you admit and face your bias rather than justify it. I'm seriously curious what google interview board members have to say about this study. People like Gayle Laakmaan have been saying things to justify the whole process for years…

From what I have read from Gayle Laakmaan, they know this throws away many good engineers, but it is acceptable to them because it doesn’t let bad ones through.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#170

Post by jjav » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

javert wrote: post #79

erentz wrote: post #11

It was made the clearest to me when I interviewed a colleague who had left to another company and two years later was interviewing to return. I knew he knew everything and had the skills for the job because, well, I know him, I’d worked with him before. He’d done this very job previously. Yet he still performed terribly in the interview and (rightly or wrongly) I had to base my evaluation on my knowledge of him rathe…

> If you want a job and good career progression the best advice has to be prioritize making friends with lots of people Getting good at interviewing should also be a priority, and is doable. Getting good at interviewing is largely about developing (a) genuine programming skill; and b) at least some people/communication skill. When you have those skills, you have less anxiety about the interview, and can perform well.

Genuine programming skill has no correlation to the skill of regurgitating algorithms in a reality-show type setting. Actual development, of real products, isn't done like that. This is the reason why it's so perpetually controversial to put developers through this type of interviews which measure nothing relevant to the job.