The global fertility rate is falling • Hacker News Board

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#791

Post by fendy3002 » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

dumbfoundded wrote: post #787

helen___keller wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Huge swathes of people are desperate, angry, and depressed, I think because there is no opportunity for them. As a slight digression, mental health is particularly dire because culturally we have not learned how to advance it yet. Mental health is not given the same reverence as physical health. It's common sense more or less that you need to drink water, eat healthy food, get good sleep, get exercise. Some people…

IMO, as someone who has struggled with mental health problems throughout my life, the needs of good mental health are pretty easy to understand but extremely difficult to achieve. Good mental health comes from feeling loved and needed and having a purpose in life. Love can come from one person or a community but it's absolutely essential. Having a purpose and feeling needed are as important as having the time and ene…

IMO, purpose in life as motivation to live is a double edged sword. It motivates someone for sure, but when he/she lost the very purpose, depression comes, even suicidal thoughts.

Which is why I like the concept of Dukkha in Buddhist, that knowing how meaningless I am can make me enjoy life more and not caring too much unimportant things, such as comparing myself with billionaires.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#792

Post by frenchyatwork » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

scottLobster wrote: post #727

zeepzeep wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whether to start trying to have a family is a BIG-ASS decision, with life-long consequences It especially has life-long consequences for the children! I wouldn't want to put children in this world. I don't think the future world is a nice place to grow up in, even the current world isn't. IMO it's selfish to make kids just to feel fulfilled and not be lonely.

You realize there's probably never been a better time to be alive except for maybe 50 years ago, right? (depending on which part of the world you're in) Yes life continues to be harsh, brutal and tragic. It always has been and in some ways always will be. But if your kids are doomed to live in merely the 2nd best civilization humanity has ever produced, I don't think they have much to complain about relatively speaki…

> It's more selfish IMO to make yourself the arbiter of your unborn childrens' future

This is a pretty bizarre statement. If you had a pet dog, would you consider it immoral to not provide that dog with a mate, so they could flood the world with puppies?

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#793

Post by dumbfoundded » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

fendy3002 wrote: post #791

dumbfoundded wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, as someone who has struggled with mental health problems throughout my life, the needs of good mental health are pretty easy to understand but extremely difficult to achieve. Good mental health comes from feeling loved and needed and having a purpose in life. Love can come from one person or a community but it's absolutely essential. Having a purpose and feeling needed are as important as having the time and ene…

IMO, purpose in life as motivation to live is a double edged sword. It motivates someone for sure, but when he/she lost the very purpose, depression comes, even suicidal thoughts. Which is why I like the concept of Dukkha in Buddhist, that knowing how meaningless I am can make me enjoy life more and not caring too much unimportant things, such as comparing myself with billionaires.

For me, purpose comes from my impact on other people. Is it positive? Does my existence lower the suffering of others? I don't think purpose should be comparative.

I'm not very familiar with Buddhism so I appreciate you sharing. For philosophy, I tend to look more at Stoicism. What I take away from Stoicism as it relates to purpose, is that how you live your life is more important than the things you accomplish. Living a virtuous life can be a purpose onto itself.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#794

Post by bananaface » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #768

bananaface wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Should" doesn't matter. All that matters is how power is actually distributed.

Thats what the French aristocracy said, and eventually they found their head on a pike.

Sure, because the populace had more power than they thought, and they organised. It didn't matter how rich the aristocracy were, they couldn't buy enough loyalty to defend themselves. Down the line you probably will be able to buy a robot army, and robots aren't squishy.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#795

Post by quicklime » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

creato wrote: post #345

It is disturbing that people take for granted that this is an economic problem. This thread is full of people lamenting the fact that we could support X times as many people as we do now if we all just sacrifice Y. When I look around the world today, I think the biggest resource that is lacking is economic opportunity. Huge swathes of people are desperate, angry, and depressed, I think because there is no opportunity…

Why would demand for labor go up in a society with a shrinking population? Both the labor market and the consumer market draw from the general population - so I would think that a shrinking population would cause both to decrease. The net per capita effect would be for things to stay the same.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#796

Post by jelliclesfarm » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 4:50 PM UTC

We should discuss the most important reason people have children. A way to make their genetic material immortal. At least half of it. There is no other way to continue living after ceasing to exist.

The joy of children, the company, the pain of loneliness being childless etc are emotions that is like malicious code that hacks the human psyche in order to replicate some other lines of code on to the next generation.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#797

Post by bananaface » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #753

bananaface wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If AI takes jobs, it doesn't cause wealth to be redistributed, it causes wealth to flow upwards to the person who owns the AI. That might then be redistributed, but it might also not. Whether it is or isn't is largely up to the people who have the most power. In that system, which group has the most power?

In democratic societies the majority decides how resources are distributed. If they can understand where their interests actually lie it shouldn’t be a problem.

If you put a referendum to the people tomorrow, saying "should we tax billionaires more than other people, and spend it on you," you'd get an overwhelming yes. The fact we don't have policies like that show the majority aren't deciding that distribution.

But you're also assuming society stays democratic. Why would it, if enough power is aggregated at the top? Who's going to stop them if they decide to form a cabal?

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#798

Post by manquer » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

saithound wrote: post #562

manquer wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don’t understand babies are killed (rares Nowadays) and selective abortions (million a year ) if it is not boy. while the national average is 1100 , there are already states where it is 1250 or more , they already import brides from other states because finding a match is harder . sex detection although illegal still happens , and abortions follow The numbers are real for both countries and are well verified over…

> you don’t understand babies are killed (rares Nowadays) and selective abortions (million a year ) if it is not boy. I do understand. I know that the skew exists. I'm saying precisely that the propoposed "not illegal, not unethical" explanations do not explain the skew; in fact, it's mathematically impossible for the style of family planning strategies (e.g. stop having children if the first one is a girl) to cause…

Illegal certainly, but hard to enforce as knowing the sex is not difficult at all(although illegal), ultrasounds are cheap devices do not even need a lot of expertise to handle .

How will you even control abortions ? It is not like the U.S. where abortions are a political issue and ppl make it intentionally difficult , everyone is in favour of terminating unwanted pregnancies, it is just that is unwanted because of the sex many times and that’s hard to enforce as a law.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#799

Post by fzeroracer » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

scottLobster wrote: post #790

mf_tomb wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potential children don't exist. They cannot be harmed by not existing. They can, however, be harmed by being brought into existence. This is true even if life is "worth living" or "generally good" or "mostly pleasurable". Depression and nihilism has nothing to do with it, and my ancestors also don't exist anymore, so why would I care about their opinions?

They exist as potential, the same way the rock at the top of hill has a certain amount of potential energy. You choose whether to push the rock down the hill or not, and declaring that the rock will absolutely be harmed to an unacceptable degree, when it's foggy and you can't see even 10 feet down the hill, is irrational. Especially given that billions of other rocks have been pushed down much steeper hills with extr…

>I don't want to succeed at the basic function of life

Treating having children as a success and a reward in of itself is part of the problem. If someone doesn't want to have children because they feel like they'll have a bad life, that's their decision to make. Not yours to try and apply some strange value judgment where completely unborn children somehow have a say in the equation.

You're making the argument rather absurdly personal with your claims that they're a helicopter parent for not wanting to have children and claiming that they're weak/unreliable/untrustworthy. Stop it.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#800

Post by simonebrunozzi » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

gregfjohnson wrote: post #357

The Hacker News comment section tends to be factual, rational, and logical. So - this may be out of place, but here goes. When making decisions about whether or not to have children, we operate in a state of partial information. (This is of course true of all decisions.) I would like to contribute a bit of information. I'm 66, and have three children and four grandchildren. My adult children are the most wonderful pe…

> My therapist observes that you are only as happy as your least happy child.

I am not a parent (yet?), but this sounds very true based on what my parents always told me.

By the way, thanks for your comment. It might not be "in line" with other comments, but I found it genuine and heartfelt. And it enriched me.