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Resignation Letter

bariweiss.com

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Re: Resignation Letter

#681

Post by gwright »

poutrathor wrote: post #676
gwright wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it really the case? Pretty hard to answer that question in HN with anything other than another anecdote, but I would personally answer that question with "yes". I have seen this behavior on several online forums I am in (including HN) as well as in real-world settings. The well-documented incidents with "non-left" speakers on college campuses is another data point. Take a look at the insanity that happened at Ev…

Evergreen seems to be an extreme occurrence, ain't it ? College campuses are also a small, very small part of USA ; though quite influential. But if college campuses were a correct representation of the people, most current world leaders would not be in charge xD

Certainly extreme in magnitude but I don't think anomalous in nature. There is considerable evidence that the non-STEM departments in US higher education are intellectually leftist monocultures.

Re: Resignation Letter

#682

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

Firebrand wrote: post #543
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see this directly on Reddit, or even here, thanks to the downvote button. It doesn't matter how right you may be, how many sources you may have, if it angers a sufficient people to lead to your post being downvoted, no one will be able to read it. And though the points are made up, it's always annoying to look at a post you spent half an hour typing and researching just to have it get down to -6 with no furth…

You just gotta know your audience. Everyone has the fantasy of turning hearts and minds to your point of view with your words but eventually you come to the realization it’s just not worth the effort.

I agree, though if there weren't downvotes, I'd probably still make the attempt. But with downvotes, it's just made so abundantly clear that people just don't care, why should I waste my effort so that I can be downvoted into oblivion where no one can read my post?

Re: Resignation Letter

#683

Post by throwaway894345 »

TomSwirly wrote: post #675
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #27

> Twitter is not on the masthead of The New York Times. But Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions. I…

> Can't anyone there see past the current insanity and think? "I am the voice of reason!! All must think as I do! Can't you see?" She has set out to be combative and say things that a lot of people find repugnant. In particular, she has publicly mocked many of her coworkers, which isn't really a great way to make friends in the workplace. She presents no actual examples of misconduct against her either. Near as I can…

She paints a pretty clear picture of a hostile workplace, particularly in the context of all of the other drama going on at the Times. It's surprising that so many people who don't work at the Times are so confident that Bari is awful, lying, and generally deserving of harassment. Moreover, I don't understand how a good faith participant could read her letter and derive from it "All must think as I do!"--do you really not perceive a difference between a desire not to be harassed and a demand for ideological conformity? The general cancel culture debate on this forum has featured a shocking number of "harassment is criticism" arguments, and this seems like yet another. As a professional, you're allowed to think that her views are repugnant, and you're allowed to professionally criticize her views; however, harassment crosses the line. However, perhaps Bari is lying about the alleged harassment--I don't understand how you and others are so confident this is the case (yes, I'm aware that she accused professors of racism in college nearly 20 years ago, I don't see one minor offense in almost 20 years--and one which is frankly milder than those churned out at the Times on a daily basis--as indicative of a deeply flawed character, and attempts to use this to smear her only leave me with less respect for the critic).

> Well, it's their right not to like her, as long as they obey the rules.

Yeah, that's the whole point. Bari alleges harassment that the Times wouldn't put up with if the target was a progressive and not a Jewish liberal. According to her, her colleagues weren't 'obeying the rules'.

Re: Resignation Letter

#684

Post by randomsearch »

thu2111 wrote: post #680
randomsearch wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both are notoriously, extremely biased on all kinds of topics That's a strong claim without evidence.

Well, I provided some evidence for the FT. Do you think a newspaper that literally flies the flag of a foreign government over its offices is going to be critical of that government? I'm not sure how you'd prove this rigorously though. Just look at other comments in this thread. One commenter observes he never saw a pro-Brexit op-ed in the FT, ever. They're always anti.

I doubt editorial policy is dictated by proximity to flags, so I'll leave that aside.

The FT and Economist are both focused on economic issues. I don't think you can expect them to campaign for a cause that is (by the admission of its supporters) going to damage the economy. They do consider the positive economic outcomes and possibilities of Brexit within their reporting, but there just aren't many compared to the negative ones. I don't think that's biased, it's fact, and it's fact that is agreed upon by both sides of the debate.

Re: Resignation Letter

#685

Post by PunchTornado »

TomSwirly wrote: post #675
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #27

> Twitter is not on the masthead of The New York Times. But Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions. I…

> Can't anyone there see past the current insanity and think? "I am the voice of reason!! All must think as I do! Can't you see?" She has set out to be combative and say things that a lot of people find repugnant. In particular, she has publicly mocked many of her coworkers, which isn't really a great way to make friends in the workplace. She presents no actual examples of misconduct against her either. Near as I can…

she presents clear examples of bullying that should get people fired, like her name followed by an axe on slack. I hope she has a screenshot. But I doubt that she invented that example. NYT should investigate and punish the bully.

Otherwise, I am dissapointed when I open the paper and barely see any conservative columns while half the country still is conservative. I want to see how and why people think that way in this country, read their opinions.

Re: Resignation Letter

#686

Post by PunchTornado »

TeaDrunk wrote: post #491
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #27

> Twitter is not on the masthead of The New York Times. But Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions. I…

She would probably be fine if she wasn't publicly bad mouthing her co workers on company time, during an all-hands meeting. She's injecting a politically convenient narrative to protect herself from the consequences of her own actions.

what were her actions that demands bullying in the workplace?

Re: Resignation Letter

#687

Post by esja »

randomsearch wrote: post #659
AxiomCloNe wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are some of these outlets you know of? I've been trying to ironclad my news sources after getting into Chomsky recently but have only found Democracy Now! and Novara media, as well as a couple other small speciality podcasts that seem potentially good. Would appreciate pointers.

It’s been posted here a thousand times, but the Economist and the FT are good starting points.

I don't agree. I've paid to subscribe to the FT for over ten years, and used to subscribe to the Economist before letting it lapse. They are not neutral and especially in the case of the FT, this has gotten a lot worse in the last few years.

Both papers do provide quite good coverage of particular economic topics, framed by their editorial perspective. But if your understanding of Brexit or Trump (or anything politically contentious) comes only from the FT, you are setting yourself up for a huge surprise.

Re: Resignation Letter

#688

Post by PunchTornado »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #641
throwaway894345 wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you making the “small vocal minority” argument? “Most progressives are principled liberals who condemn cancellation but we never hear from them”? And why are you focusing so much on doctrine as though progressive doctrine and not progressive behavior is on trial. I take very little consolation from the idea that progressive doctrine condemns cancellation or that in theory progressives ought to be tolerant and…

What does "progressive behavior" mean? What does "conservative behavior" mean? The sort of thing typically being discussed here (in relation to so-called "cancel culture") typically involve the action of a few thousand (or less) people working almost entirely online or within the context of a small social context (for example a college). For me, what matters are policies enacted that have the power to affect thousand…

I think you should care because 'cancel culture' is discussed everywhere now and has a deep emotional weight that can change people's opinion and how they vote. I don't know how many people are still in the center and undecided politically with this tribalism, but cancel culture could and is used politically now (among others, by Trump).

Re: Resignation Letter

#689

Post by esja »

randomsearch wrote: post #684
thu2111 wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I provided some evidence for the FT. Do you think a newspaper that literally flies the flag of a foreign government over its offices is going to be critical of that government? I'm not sure how you'd prove this rigorously though. Just look at other comments in this thread. One commenter observes he never saw a pro-Brexit op-ed in the FT, ever. They're always anti.

I doubt editorial policy is dictated by proximity to flags, so I'll leave that aside. The FT and Economist are both focused on economic issues. I don't think you can expect them to campaign for a cause that is (by the admission of its supporters) going to damage the economy. They do consider the positive economic outcomes and possibilities of Brexit within their reporting, but there just aren't many compared to the n…

As a long-time subscriber I think it's more accurate to say they are selectively focused on economic issues. They publish plenty of non-economic pieces which align with their view of the world.

Re: Resignation Letter

#690

Post by esja »

cm2187 wrote: post #451
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the FT do a pretty good job, without as much of the problematic editorials. Probably not as useful to you if you're US based, but I find it really useful for living in Europe.

I would have agreed with you 5 years ago. Unfortunately pretty much every article in the FT has become politically motivated, following very much the NYT's "only the facts that fit the narrative". The FT is openly running campaigns on many topics, and then you aren't reading news, you are reading propaganda. The editor changed in January, I unsubscribed a month before. Perhaps things have changed since.

It's gotten a lot worse since January.

I've subscribed for over a decade, and for the first time am questioning whether I should keep paying to be misinformed.

It's very strange as FT subscribers often have money at stake and the last thing they want is to be surprised by events.

Maybe their subscription numbers are falling and Nikkei is chasing the mass market and ad revenue. I don't see that working, as divisive clickbait is available everywhere for free... looks like a doom loop to me.

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