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Resignation Letter

bariweiss.com

661–670 of 716 posts

Re: Resignation Letter

#661

Bari Weiss is a problematic character in this area. She has played gatekeeper herself quite stridently and successfully. She is quite fine with her own "involvement in numerous campaigns to vilify and ruin the careers of several Arab and Muslim professors due to their criticisms of Israel" per Glenn Greenwald in the Intercept: https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals...

We should be able to separate what she’s saying and evaluate it on its own merits, whilst _separately_ also critiquing her behaviour. You can’t demolish her argument by attacking her character. Well, at least not on HN (yet).

“Problematic” is often cited as the way extremists are labelling people they want to cancel.

Re: Resignation Letter

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have 1,600 journalists last year that were sent to 150 countries [1]. What other organization is doing anything like that effort to gather facts around the world? Reuters [0], for one, which boasts "2500 journalists and 600 photojournalists." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuters A key thing to understand about the editorial / news hybrids like the NYT, CNN, or Fox News is that they're selling multiple product…

what are some of these outlets you know of? I've been trying to ironclad my news sources after getting into Chomsky recently but have only found Democracy Now! and Novara media, as well as a couple other small speciality podcasts that seem potentially good. Would appreciate pointers.

I find the Wall Street Journal and Financial Times mostly OK, if you can live with the fact that they will always support the corporate sector.

Re: Resignation Letter

#663
post #651
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I basically just trust two at this point: Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi. Both biased to the left, but both are explicit about it, and neither would lie to suit a narrative, unlike the rest of their colleagues.

By "biased to the left" I guess you mean they support socialism a la Bernie Sanders? So far I enjoyed listening to Greenwald's podcast (System Update), except it was rather weird hearing him casually saying that annexation of West Bank is worse than annexation of Crimea in 2014 because in Crimea almost everyone wanted to join Russia anyway (compared to the West Bank, where no one wants to join Israel). That's not qui…

> in Crimea almost everyone wanted to join Russia anyway

That much is actually true - I grew up not far from there, and it was a mistake for Khrushchev to give Crimea to Ukrainian SSR - it's been a part of Russia since 1783. But back then it was unimaginable that the USSR would fall, so nobody made much of it. Ukrainians were an ethnic minority in Crimea, and Russians were 67% of the population at the time it re-joined Russia. Not something you will find in US mainstream press. This is why Greenwald's input is valuable - he actually studied the issue rather than parroting the mainstream party line.

To see why he's right, consider this: Russia took Crimea _without any bloodshed_ and with fairly minimal military presence. This would not be possible if populace wasn't in agreement.

Leaving aside the formalities, Ukraine's grasp on Crimea was tenuous at best, and its fate was decided when Ukraine threatened to kick Russian military base out of Sevastopol - which lets Russia control the vital Black sea. With Russia no longer there, somebody else (e.g. NATO) could take its place, which Russia will not allow for geostrategical reasons.

But even ignoring Russia's interests in the region - one could argue Crimea was never really "Ukrainian" in the first place, and their temporary possession of that land was a historical mistake, which has now been corrected. It's not even clear if Khrushchev had the authority to give it away in the first place.

No opinion on the West Bank, I don't have first hand info on that.

Re: Resignation Letter

#664
post #663
post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "biased to the left" I guess you mean they support socialism a la Bernie Sanders? So far I enjoyed listening to Greenwald's podcast (System Update), except it was rather weird hearing him casually saying that annexation of West Bank is worse than annexation of Crimea in 2014 because in Crimea almost everyone wanted to join Russia anyway (compared to the West Bank, where no one wants to join Israel). That's not qui…

> in Crimea almost everyone wanted to join Russia anyway That much is actually true - I grew up not far from there, and it was a mistake for Khrushchev to give Crimea to Ukrainian SSR - it's been a part of Russia since 1783. But back then it was unimaginable that the USSR would fall, so nobody made much of it. Ukrainians were an ethnic minority in Crimea, and Russians were 67% of the population at the time it re-join…

Ukraine really got screwed over though. It had inherited Soviet nuclear weapons, it agreed to destroy them in exchange for promises from Russia, the US, and the UK to respect its sovereignty and territorial integrity in its existing borders (1994 Budapest Memorandum). Russia completely violated that commitment (both with the Crimea annexation, and by supporting the Donbass insurgency).

Would Russia have annexed Crimea if Ukraine still had nuclear weapons?

Re: Resignation Letter

#665

> Twitter is not on the masthead of The New York Times. But Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions. I…

The newspapers don't know what to do with themselves. In my opinion, they're following because we're in a period of flux or change in our society, driven by the massive impact of the internet and the barriers to publication being practically zero now. Because there are so many voices shouting out right now, it's impossible to find the ones who are speaking "the truth" when that was something defined by a handful of e…

I don't think that's really true. The pathological problems affecting most of the news media aren't universal, even within that industry, and certainly not if you broaden the definition of journalism slightly to include independent writers on blogs.

I remember some years ago, a big debate in the media was whether blogging represented some new revolution in journalism. Eventually the mainstream became obsessed with Twitter and sort of forgot about blogging, but it never went away.

By far the best journalism and analysis available during COVID-19 has been from this wider group of journalists. Some of them are both independent bloggers and writers in regular newspapers simultaneously. But many are just ordinary citizens who happen to work in mathematically or statistically rigorous fields, and found themselves with time on their hands to do analysis.

I think one reason they can do a better job is they're less conflicted than journalists are. They can write some calm, level headed articles pitched to any audience they like and don't have to worry about how many clicks they get, or whether subscriptions will grow or shrink as a consequence. A huge problem professional journalists have is that they earn more money when telling people there's a crisis, because news consumption goes way up. So anything scary is blasted out at full volume, and when it's discovered to have been a false alarm there's crickets. There's no incentive at all to tell people, OK, maybe this isn't as bad as it seemed.

I think this is also why so many journalists end up attacking vague, unnamed "deniers" and "sceptics". It's common for such people to write detailed blog posts drilling in to a specific scientific issue far deeper than newspaper or CNN talking heads can, and often concluding, actually, the issue is overhyped. They can reach that conclusion because their livelihoods don't depend on finding the opposite. But any time anyone reads this alt-journalism and concludes, hey, maybe I'm being manipulated into believing things that sell a lot of news, they drop out and stop consuming as much of the "pro" output. It makes sceptical bloggers the arch enemies of mainstream news.

Into this cacophony we also have bad actors, people, organizations, countries who intentionally set out to poison the truth and watch it die .... We've been shown that those with the command of immense resources can exploit and control our laws and government to the point of being beyond the law.

I don't think we have. I think that's another narrative newspapers like to feed people to keep them watching or reading.

Re: Resignation Letter

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same story across journalism and I wrote about this exact phenomenon in the article I submitted yesterday - journalism had to please the social media, news aggregator and SEO algorithms to stay alive. They write and say what's popular to their audience and suitable for the tech platforms - not what's right.

...and this is why it is so vulnerable to foreign influence. An army of bots (human or programmed) can sway Twitter incredibly easily and drive outrage, which now seems will shape the US media narrative. It's like they are intentionally steering the ship towards the rocks. I wonder who might be helping this effort... hmm... /s

There are no armies of Twitter bots swaying mass public opinion. That's another nonsensical conspiracy theory of the sort of the New York Times has gone all-in on to try and explain how Trump won without having to engage with his policies or arguments.

This article looks at just one news story+research paper alleging a Russian Twitter bot army swaying politics, but in the UK rather than the USA:

https://blog.plan99.net/did-russian-bots-impact-brexit-ad66f...

tl;dr - the paper is filled with fraud but was breathlessly reported by the (London) Times, and it convinced the Prime Minister despite being false.

Re: Resignation Letter

#667
post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in Crimea almost everyone wanted to join Russia anyway That much is actually true - I grew up not far from there, and it was a mistake for Khrushchev to give Crimea to Ukrainian SSR - it's been a part of Russia since 1783. But back then it was unimaginable that the USSR would fall, so nobody made much of it. Ukrainians were an ethnic minority in Crimea, and Russians were 67% of the population at the time it re-join…

Ukraine really got screwed over though. It had inherited Soviet nuclear weapons, it agreed to destroy them in exchange for promises from Russia, the US, and the UK to respect its sovereignty and territorial integrity in its existing borders (1994 Budapest Memorandum). Russia completely violated that commitment (both with the Crimea annexation, and by supporting the Donbass insurgency). Would Russia have annexed Crime…

> Ukraine really got screwed over though.

No argument there.

> Would Russia have annexed Crimea if Ukraine still had nuclear weapons?

It likely would not. But that's a hypothetical, so there's no way to tell one or the other. MAD is a thing, and neither country would deploy nuclear weapons this close to itself, let alone do so in a MAD-inducing way.

What is certain is that Ukraine would be a different level of a player on the international stage if it had nuclear weapons. Other countries (including Russia) would bend over backwards to keep it stable (much like everyone bent over backwards to stop proliferation in 1991), and there'd be no talk of NATO presence at Russia's border with Ukraine.

People in the US (which never had a real, total land war on its soil) don't understand: there are kinds of things that Russia simply will not allow. In contrast with the US, Russia had total wars on its soil several times, and lost tens of millions of people in those wars - a level of sacrifice unimaginable here in the US. Russia does not have natural barriers to a land invasion. So it cannot and will not afford the "buffer states" around it (such as Ukraine or Belarus) to fall under NATO or anybody else's control. It's not even a question of cost or international law. It's a question of national security and survival. Those concerns always dominate.

One of the things Russia will not allow in particular are NATO bases within easy striking distance of Krasnodar, Rostov, and much of its agricultural base. Another is Belarus affiliating itself militarily with the West. Baltic states were lost, so now there's a NATO military base within 200 miles of Saint Petersburg (in Estonia), which is significantly raising Putin's blood pressure and could result in action if escalation continues there. These things start small. Some people, a few tanks. Then there's an air base. Then there are rockets and long range radars being deployed under the pretense of "protecting Europe from Iran" (for those who don't know where Iran is on the map). And so on and so forth.

Re: Resignation Letter

#668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are some of these outlets you know of? I've been trying to ironclad my news sources after getting into Chomsky recently but have only found Democracy Now! and Novara media, as well as a couple other small speciality podcasts that seem potentially good. Would appreciate pointers.

It’s been posted here a thousand times, but the Economist and the FT are good starting points.

Less biased on what topics?

Both are notoriously, extremely biased on all kinds of topics, for example Brexit/the EU. The Financial Times actually flies the EU flag above its offices: rather hard to get a clearer statement of bias than that.

Re: Resignation Letter

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been posted here a thousand times, but the Economist and the FT are good starting points.

Less biased on what topics? Both are notoriously, extremely biased on all kinds of topics, for example Brexit/the EU. The Financial Times actually flies the EU flag above its offices: rather hard to get a clearer statement of bias than that.

> Both are notoriously, extremely biased on all kinds of topics

That's a strong claim without evidence.

Re: Resignation Letter

#670
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't take them too seriously until I see an alternative that does the work of collective discovery. There is an alternative. It is you and I. The citizen journalist will become the arbiter of truth tomorrow. And that arbitration will be decided on rationality. There will be no more credentialism and gatekeeping. That is why the traditional media companies are scared shitless.

> There is an alternative. It is you and I. How do I tell the difference between an honest citizen journalist, a propagandist, a liar, a lunatic, or a troll? Conventional journalism of course is not perfectly trustworthy, but at least there is some penalty for extreme untrustworthiness in the form of loss of reputation of the paper and its brand. The NYT is an illustrative case. My opinion of that paper dropped signi…

I'm not sure there's a penalty. NYT subscriptions have been going up, not down, despite it frequently reporting things that are bizarre or factually wrong. Same is true for many other papers.

That makes sense: people often buy newspapers for the analysis that reconfirms their own world views, and gives them intellectual ammo for their pre-conceived notions.

With citizen journalists (a.k.a. bloggers) they start out with no pre-existing reputation so tend to depend on other ways to quickly build credibility, like using lots of hyperlinks to sources so you can check their claims, or leaving comments open so commenters can criticise and respond. Even today in 2020 it's standard for news articles to provide no citations or hyperlinks at all, even when e.g. the entire report is about a research paper, and often comment sections are now closed. Exactly because so many commenters would often point out flaws in the articles!

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