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Riot is now Element

element.io

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Re: Riot is now Element

#171

Post by natural219 »

lvturner wrote: post #166

So many of these comments just feel like bikeshedding. By most arguments here basecamp is an awful name for a company and hey is a terrible name for an email application - it doesn't seem to be holding them back though. For those not familiar with bikeshedding please see: http://bikeshed.com/

The bikeshedding is incredibly infuriating.

Probably the main problem with adoption of decentralized services is the overwhelming entitlement users feel to have everything delivered to them by megacorps.

Stop doing this!!! Stop being a whiny brat and think deeply about the trade-offs between centralized services and not having everything perfect right out of the gate. It's maddening.

Re: Riot is now Element

#172

Post by Macha »

jayp1418 wrote: post #160
neiljohnson wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix is the protocol, Element is a client to access Matrix which it does so via a matrix homeserver (which then federates across the rest of the Matrix). So Element is free to use, but there are a range of servers to choose from. The matrix.org server is free to use, though as the largest single instance on the public federation is run on a best effort basis. Alternatives are to either host your own server, or have…

Yes but does EMS allow white labeling clients also ?

The clients are mostly Apache 2 licensed, and at least Riot Web has config options to swap out some of the branding at deploy time: https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/blob/develop/docs/conf...

It's not a marketed use case though, so I'm sure you could find places the app will still refer to itself as Riot (or now Element).

Alternatively the protocol is open so many third party clients exist: https://matrix.org/clients/ . Feature support in third party clients is pretty unevenly distributed though, E2EE in particular is supported in Riot and Seaglass, experimental in weechat-matrix and nheko, and absent in basically every other client.

Re: Riot is now Element

#173

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

_8j50 wrote: post #85

No!!! Of all the names in the world why this. "Hey bro, let's chat on Element" ,not quite a ring to it. The hardest problem in computer science strikes again! Matrix,Riot and Libolm are epic projects, I wish them all the success but man, even Riot was a hard sell as a brand. I would seriously be dissapointed if it loses popularity over this. I don't think the project maintainers understand that their core users/fans…

Whatsapp can be an extremely confusing name for non-native English speakers. I'm from Spain and I think 90% of the time I see it written in Spain, it's written wrong (wassap, whasapp, wuatsapp, whatsap, watsap, wuassap, wuassapp, whatsup, watsup, etc.). Sometimes a phonetically "transliterated" version is used instead, like "guasap", which I find more tolerable because at least then it becomes a genuine Spanish word, rather than a botched attempt at writing an English word.

Also, many people don't get the meaning/pun in the name at all (which probably is one of the reasons for writing it wrong). Even to me, with a good English level, it wasn't immediate because "what's up" is a very idiomatic greeting and not one that non-natives (or at least, Spanish people) tend to use in a natural way. It took some time to click in my mind.

That said, Whatsapp absolutely dominates chat apps in Spain... so I guess these issues are not that important after all. Or at least, not if you are at the right place at the right time.

Re: Riot is now Element

#174

Post by bovermyer »

_8j50 wrote: post #85

No!!! Of all the names in the world why this. "Hey bro, let's chat on Element" ,not quite a ring to it. The hardest problem in computer science strikes again! Matrix,Riot and Libolm are epic projects, I wish them all the success but man, even Riot was a hard sell as a brand. I would seriously be dissapointed if it loses popularity over this. I don't think the project maintainers understand that their core users/fans…

You're allowed to dislike the name.

I like the new name.

If you're pissed about Element, you must be absolutely livid about Apple.

Re: Riot is now Element

#175

Post by Macha »

bartread wrote: post #98
teekert wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh, I don't see any problems with the name? I like it.

Try googling "element", and then try googling "whatsapp". See the difference? I get frustrated when brands, products, and even more so OSS software projects, choose names that have too many other meanings/brands associated with them because it can make it unnecessarily difficult to find relevant information using current search engine technology[0]. I've had situations where I've been clicking through pages and pages…

But the difference between Signal returning results for the messaging client and Element not returning results is just one of popularity and the fact that Element as a name is brand new. When signal was a nerdy thing used by few people it was not coming up highly in results either. Arguably Riot has more users than Signal did when it was called TextSecure, so Element is better placed to pick up as a name than Signal was.

Obviously Whatsapp had the advantage that its only competition in search results were typos and people mispelling whats up for comedic effect.

Re: Riot is now Element

#176

Post by christopoulos »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #173
_8j50 wrote: post #85

No!!! Of all the names in the world why this. "Hey bro, let's chat on Element" ,not quite a ring to it. The hardest problem in computer science strikes again! Matrix,Riot and Libolm are epic projects, I wish them all the success but man, even Riot was a hard sell as a brand. I would seriously be dissapointed if it loses popularity over this. I don't think the project maintainers understand that their core users/fans…

Whatsapp can be an extremely confusing name for non-native English speakers. I'm from Spain and I think 90% of the time I see it written in Spain, it's written wrong (wassap, whasapp, wuatsapp, whatsap, watsap, wuassap, wuassapp, whatsup, watsup, etc.). Sometimes a phonetically "transliterated" version is used instead, like "guasap", which I find more tolerable because at least then it becomes a genuine Spanish word,…

This is so true. I remember this when I had a conversation with a Spanish developer and he said Java mid-sentence...

Re: Riot is now Element

#177

Post by boffinism »

lvturner wrote: post #166

So many of these comments just feel like bikeshedding. By most arguments here basecamp is an awful name for a company and hey is a terrible name for an email application - it doesn't seem to be holding them back though. For those not familiar with bikeshedding please see: http://bikeshed.com/

I mean, the article is literally a press release about a name change. Of course the comments are going to be a discussion about the name change rather than anything more substantial about the product or business or underlying tech.

Re: Riot is now Element

#178

Post by Macha »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #157
neutronicus wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a "Riot" is a kind of boisterous conversation - like a chat, but less commoditized and more populist

I'm not a native speaker, but I associate a riot with group violence, vandalism, looting, that kind of thing.

I am a native speaker, and I've heard "a riot" used to describe "a good time", but in isolation I'd definitely also picture the violent protest type of riot.

That said, this doesn't appear to to be a common usage in the US. Webster doesn't have this usage, Wiktionary describes it as obselete and pairs it more with excess than I would, (also they use fifteenth century examples), though Oxford has it.

Re: Riot is now Element

#179

Post by Xenoamorphous »

oehtXRwMkIs wrote: post #47
srg0 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

looking at you, git

funny thing about git is as a non-Brit, I thought for the longest time it was a made up word.

I thought so too (not a native English speaker, had never seen that word before) until I read a quote from Linus saying that he likes to name his projects after himself.

Re: Riot is now Element

#180

Post by jayp1418 »

Macha wrote: post #172
jayp1418 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but does EMS allow white labeling clients also ?

The clients are mostly Apache 2 licensed, and at least Riot Web has config options to swap out some of the branding at deploy time: https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/blob/develop/docs/conf... It's not a marketed use case though, so I'm sure you could find places the app will still refer to itself as Riot (or now Element). Alternatively the protocol is open so many third party clients exist: https://matrix.org/cli…

Got it..
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