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Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

bbc.com

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Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#411

Post by echlebek »

dang wrote: post #249
dang wrote: post #242

All: HN has been seeing a dismaying increase in nationalistic flamewar. This is not allowed here. I know it feels important when you're caught up in the intensity of such feelings, but it is not interesting , which is what HN is for. Worse, it has the effect on interesting discussion that tank battles have on a city park. If you don't have something thoughtful and substantive to say, please don't post until you do. D…

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place. That way we can collapse it and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of thread.

FWIW, I downvoted the GP comment, in hopes that it will not be the top thread in this discussion, even though I agree with the moderation.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#412

Post by allarm »

adventured wrote: post #353
sudosysgen wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US destroyed Iranian democracy and replaced it by the Shah, a brutal autocratic leader whose abuse of power and violation of human rights led to the rise of the current far-right Islamic theocracy : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... The US destroyed Bolivia, replacing an elected government that was legally found to be allowed to run, with a far-right nationalist military-backed junta…

> The US destroyed Iranian democracy and replaced it by the Shah Iran had no democracy. Mosaddegh was appointed Prime Minister by the Shah, he was not democratically elected by the people of Iran. The Majlis that nominated him were a collection of feudal lords that dominated Iranian politics, they were not democratically elected by the people of Iran, they co-ruled Iran as a feudal kingdom. If Iran were a democracy t…

> Iran had no democracy

Oh, it’s totally fine then.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#413

Post by Confiks »

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #336
dang wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place. That way we can collapse it and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of thread.

I know that it’s difficult for you to discuss anti-astroturfing methods without disclosing information that could make circumvention easier, but can you give us an idea of how much effort is put in to detecting this kind of activity on HN? You seem very confident that this doesn’t happen here; is that because you’re doing something to prevent it? We are, after all, talking about an entity that is known to use these t…

Thanks for asking the question and putting so much care into stating it.

I have no idea what kind of methods HN employs. I personally always check the posting history when I'm in doubt about the intentions of a poster. Most of the time, I find an extensive amount of fairly well considered comments on a variety of topics. That leads me to the conclusion that the account is 'genuine'.

To state it a bit more naively: if a Sybil attack would require the attacker to craft so many constructive comments in order to evade detection, it could actually have a net positive effect on the community as a whole.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#414

Post by CamperBob2 »

dang wrote: post #401
msla wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of the disagreement is paid-for, to ensure no actual discussion is allowed to break out.

Internet users are a thousand (actually probably more like a hundred thousand) times too quick to jump to such insidious but exciting conclusions. Having spent countless hours investigating such things I can tell you confidently that the overwhelming explanation is the boring and obvious one, the one Mr. Occam will give if you ask: people just disagree. People are biased toward underestimating how much legitimate dis…

I wonder if you can talk a little about how you determine whether or not astroturfing is going on. How can you be sure that a given post with a political or nationalist slant is made in good faith? You seem pretty confident that it's not a widespread problem, which is great, but it would be good if the rest of us could share at least some of that confidence.

Is it really enough to look at the account history and observe that the same user has participated in other unrelated threads? Or are there more subtle cues that you go by?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#415

Post by eredengrin »

bob1029 wrote: post #369
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #219

All providers had their infamy moment at some point, leaving a backdoor behind. Maybe for spying, maybe because QA failed. Huawei is on the US radar but somehow when Cisco left a backdoor on some routers it was "just a mistake". Every country is guilty of stabbing in the back others (occasionally or all the time), it has been the case for centuries and is not likely to change. I am French, we do not have our own tech…

I think this is the most practical realization - That everyone is doing it, and will probably continue doing it until the end of time. If you accept this, then you can quickly constrain the things you should actually worry about to a much smaller list. The first thing that pops into my mind here is the importance of end-to-end encryption. If you cannot trust anything in the middle (presumably because the internet goe…

This (and parent) is interesting to read considering the effort France has been putting into transitioning various government services to matrix in order to take advantage of the end to end encryption it offers. Seems they probably agree with a lot of these points!

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#416

Post by kimsant »

a very simple person here:

Does this mean that operators will have to pay for it, so new investments will be required?

If 5G deployment price increase due to this political stuff, is gonna be then more expensive for the end user no? price will reflect it i guess...

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#417

Post by WatchDog »

benlumen wrote: post #368

Something I don't see many people talking about is how Openreach, the UK's main physical layer broadband provider, uses Huawei kit in the majority of its street cabinets and has done since FTTC VDSL was rolled out a decade ago. 5G is the tip of the iceberg with respect to the UK's communications infrastructure involvement with Huawei.

Wireless edge infrastructure is probably a higher value target than FTTC cabinet infra. You don't need lateral movement within the network to access it/enter your backdoor, it can provide you location information of people nearby, and bricking a wireless device denies service to more people than a FTTC cabinet.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#418

Post by wyuenho »

dang wrote: post #401
msla wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of the disagreement is paid-for, to ensure no actual discussion is allowed to break out.

Internet users are a thousand (actually probably more like a hundred thousand) times too quick to jump to such insidious but exciting conclusions. Having spent countless hours investigating such things I can tell you confidently that the overwhelming explanation is the boring and obvious one, the one Mr. Occam will give if you ask: people just disagree. People are biased toward underestimating how much legitimate dis…

Does HN have anything like Twitter or Facebook to detect organized network of sock puppets?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#419

Post by wyuenho »

allarm wrote: post #410
wyuenho wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

To prevent over-reliance on a foreign supplier working with a foreign subversive government hell-bent on their unfair mercantilist policies.

In what way does the US have unfair mercantilist policies?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#420

Post by opless »

mattmanser wrote: post #377
opless wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5G operates on higher frequency and requires a larger density of base stations No that’s not required, 5G uses the same old frequencies as 2/3/4G for the bulk of the traffic, it only uses the >1Ghz frequencies for microcells in malls and other dense areas where appropriate.

I assume in order to be able to decide to serve those 1Ghz frequencies, all the phones are going to ping the local towers regardless, so it doesn't matter.

That'll no doubt be down to the configuration of the terminal device. It'll likely only TX on the available bands allowed in the devices home region for licensing/compliance issues.

Back on the tracking side of things...

AFAIKR 3G and above do not leak their IMEI/IMSI unencrypted. Of course nearly zero phones show or warn if encryption is used or not (though I think that's a setting in the SIM card).

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