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The unbundling of Harvard has begun

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Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#81

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

djcollier wrote: post #64
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears that most families making under 65k USD/year pay nothing to send a child to Harvard. Families making up to 150k USD/year are expected to pay a maximum of 10% of their income. The sticker price is what Harvard charges rich people. Harvard has a massive endowment, and probably doesn't really rely too heavily on tuition anyways.

Large endowments are not always a straight forward metric to use for determining how well off financially an institution is. Lots of contributions to endowments come with strings attached on how the money can be spent. Wouldn't be surprised to hear about a large number of new costs associated with COVID that wouldn't be covered by a lot of an endowment. [1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/05/22/colleges-face…

Sure, not all of the endowment is fungible, but it's $40 billion. Harvard is insanely rich by any measure.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#82

Post by thehappypm »

jimbokun wrote: post #78
thehappypm wrote: post #30

I always hear the argument that college/grad school is silly because you can go read the textbooks yourself. It requires an immense amount of motivation to grind away reading 80 pages of a boring CS textbook every day. The structure and motivation provided by an institution encourages people to go deeper, meet deadlines, and not just skim the boring stuff. It isn't the only way to learn, but when I did a master's deg…

> It requires an immense amount of motivation to grind away reading 80 pages of a boring CS textbook every day. But is it worth paying 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars just to keep you motivated? Maybe that "keep you motivated" functionality can be unbundled and offered for a much lower price?

Well, I went to grad school for about $25k total, plus I had tuition assistance from my employer.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#83

Post by imranq »

There's a lot of confirmation bias on this thread. If people want to believe that an elite institution is worthless, they will try to focus on the facts that yield that conclusion. But consider,

- Most of the educational material that this article describes as the downfall of universities, has been posted by universities. Don't you think that shows how little it matters?

- Anyone who gets into Harvard will have no trouble attending financially. The aid covers the cost. The crazy tuition are for the richest people, who have no trouble paying.

- Textbooks and papers have been available at your library for the past few decades. The freedom of information was enough s.t. someone in the 1970s could replicate the experience of studying in college.

e.g. “You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.” -Good Will Hunting

--

I think what we really want to solve isn't to reduce the value of elite institutions, but rather scale what's already there. The issue is that what's there is much more intangible to identify.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#84

Post by mennis16 »

slooonz wrote: post #79
mennis16 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edX. But also they really are not the same courses, at least the MIT courses on edX are not the same as "real" MIT courses (or what they put on OCW). Video lectures are separately planned/recorded to be shorter duration "modules", which decreases the depth and sometimes also results in entire topics being cut out. Assignments are heavily simplified. There is no proper replacement for recitations/office hours. And so…

> Video lectures are separately planned/recorded to be shorter duration "modules", which decreases the depth and sometimes also results in entire topics being cut out I think it depends on the course. I’m currently following "Fundamentals of Statistics" ( https://courses.edx.org/courses/course-v1:MITx+18.6501x+2T20... ), and it’s clearly a recording of an IRL course. Same with "Introduction to Biology", and the whole…

Interesting, thanks for letting me know! It does seem there is more variance in the courses than I realized. Might be related to whether courses are part of a MicroMasters or not.

I didn't realize either that some amount of course credit could transfer from that program to a traditional Masters. However it also appears to require an in person exam in that case and the "semester equivalent tuition" is like $1500.

MicroMasters sounds like a good way to test the waters for those considering a Masters to me, especially if possibly switching fields. I am still skeptical that one could realistically get a full education via these resources though. [Noting of course that depending on use case you may not need a full education].

Even for OCW which in some cases is a carbon copy of the course materials, it takes a lot of self discipline and regular access to a good study group (or an expert you can ask questions) to get the same value out of one of those classes.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#85

Post by newen »

nootropicat wrote: post #16
eezurr wrote: post #2

I couldn't finish reading this. While interesting, I sense a lot of hype, and deliberate bending of meaning (e.g. federal government less strict about requiring college degree -> all companies less strict) Traditional college is not just about information scarcity either. People also go to bond, network, participate in extracurricular groups, party, etc. Traditional college isnt going to go anywhere. Also, it's depre…

>Also, it's depressing to think of society sitting behind a screen all day. I think most people feel the same way. We need to stop using technology to tear apart the social fabric of society. You are witnessing the mere beginning. Wait for despair before a typical job consists of donning a vr gear with some controllers (possibly brain implants) to control a humanoid robot far away. It's hard to think of a job that co…

Butlerian Jihad can't come soon enough.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#86

Post by doublesCs »

roenxi wrote: post #10

I'm not sure if this gentleman has a thesis but Harvard online education is worth not much. The whole value proposition of Harvard is that you socialise and bond with the sort of people who get in to Harvard. You probably have the phone number of whoever runs Goldman Sachs [0] and you know the President of Whereveristan's daughter because she was in your class. The little things in life. It is possible but unlikely t…

> Harvard online education is worth not much.

> The whole value proposition of Harvard is that you socialise and bond with the sort of people who get in to Harvard. You probably have the phone number of whoever runs Goldman Sachs [0] and you know the President of Whereveristan's daughter because she was in your class

You sound like you're contradicting yourself.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#87

Post by sukilot »

throwgeorge wrote: post #76
Kednicma wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody who's studied some advanced maths, I think that their point is that abstract algebra is effectively a sort of secret maths techniques, sitting in plain sight but somehow sprayed with repellent or maybe equipped with a Somebody Else's Problem field. I have had more than one afternoon where I learned a concept wholly from this sort of lecture. The ability to ask the professor questions can be useful, but al…

>abstract algebra is effectively a sort of secret maths techniques abstract algebra (rings, groups, fields) is taught in absolutely every undergrad math program in the country (in the world?). there's nothing unique to harvard in this aspect.

Harvard teaches a lot more than the average undergrad program.

A Harvard undergrad degree covers a depth of knowledge that matches a master's degree at an average program.

You can read the definitions of algebra in 1 day. That's not what a class is about.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#88

Post by sukilot »

paulgb wrote: post #66
throwawaybab323 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well actually you can. The degree is listed as from harvard along with the program. Getting accepted is a joke all you need is a undergraduate gpa of a 3.0.

I can't seem to find this. Is it Harvard Extension School or actual Harvard? (Not to diminish the extension school; I have a credit from it and I was satisfied at the quality of instruction, but the admissions is definitely not the same as Harvard admission)

The point is that HES is a degree "from Harvard".

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#89

Post by sukilot »

slooonz wrote: post #79
mennis16 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edX. But also they really are not the same courses, at least the MIT courses on edX are not the same as "real" MIT courses (or what they put on OCW). Video lectures are separately planned/recorded to be shorter duration "modules", which decreases the depth and sometimes also results in entire topics being cut out. Assignments are heavily simplified. There is no proper replacement for recitations/office hours. And so…

> Video lectures are separately planned/recorded to be shorter duration "modules", which decreases the depth and sometimes also results in entire topics being cut out I think it depends on the course. I’m currently following "Fundamentals of Statistics" ( https://courses.edx.org/courses/course-v1:MITx+18.6501x+2T20... ), and it’s clearly a recording of an IRL course. Same with "Introduction to Biology", and the whole…

> You must be enrolled in the course to see course content

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#90

Post by sukilot »

rvn1045 wrote: post #62
roenxi wrote: post #10

I'm not sure if this gentleman has a thesis but Harvard online education is worth not much. The whole value proposition of Harvard is that you socialise and bond with the sort of people who get in to Harvard. You probably have the phone number of whoever runs Goldman Sachs [0] and you know the President of Whereveristan's daughter because she was in your class. The little things in life. It is possible but unlikely t…

It's trendy to say that college eduction does not matter or these elite educations are not worth the price. Or that what you learn in these institutions is the same as what you could learn anywhere. And I have to disagree. Your course work will be significantly more challenging at MIT than some other lower ranked school. You are going to go through MIT and every thing is going to seem a lot easier later on. It's a gr…

But anyone can download the coursework and do it at home.

The tricky bit is finding tutors, but the Internet had lots of helpful forums.

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