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The unbundling of Harvard has begun

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Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#61

Post by watwut »

kingkawn wrote: post #47
watwut wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Psychology is the most underrated major in tech. That particular tweet continues with "UX, growth, management, etc all boil down to understanding how people think." And you know ... my tech education did missed even basics of user interfaces or reasonable level of management/organizational/team dynamic info. Just a basic information on how to select colors or generally make things look decent. Does not have to make…

Then go find that info it’s all easily available

Not really answer to "education missed this stuff".

Especially since all of these are in the category of "people dont know that they dont know if they never heard of it".

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#62

Post by rvn1045 »

roenxi wrote: post #10

I'm not sure if this gentleman has a thesis but Harvard online education is worth not much. The whole value proposition of Harvard is that you socialise and bond with the sort of people who get in to Harvard. You probably have the phone number of whoever runs Goldman Sachs [0] and you know the President of Whereveristan's daughter because she was in your class. The little things in life. It is possible but unlikely t…

It's trendy to say that college eduction does not matter or these elite educations are not worth the price. Or that what you learn in these institutions is the same as what you could learn anywhere. And I have to disagree. Your course work will be significantly more challenging at MIT than some other lower ranked school. You are going to go through MIT and every thing is going to seem a lot easier later on. It's a great workout for your brain.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#63

Post by throwawaybab323 »

mennis16 wrote: post #55
throwawaybab323 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I mean they sell their same courses for like 20 bucks on coursera.

edX. But also they really are not the same courses, at least the MIT courses on edX are not the same as "real" MIT courses (or what they put on OCW). Video lectures are separately planned/recorded to be shorter duration "modules", which decreases the depth and sometimes also results in entire topics being cut out. Assignments are heavily simplified. There is no proper replacement for recitations/office hours. And so…

Wow this reads like the narcissistic stuff you would find on r/cscareerquestions.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#64

Post by djcollier »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #35
kanobo wrote: post #19

PSA: The 80k price tag is the sticker price. The actual average cost of Harvard is < 15k when you account for aid and parents bargaining down the price. So please try to negotiate the price if you are actually considering paying 80k.

It appears that most families making under 65k USD/year pay nothing to send a child to Harvard. Families making up to 150k USD/year are expected to pay a maximum of 10% of their income. The sticker price is what Harvard charges rich people. Harvard has a massive endowment, and probably doesn't really rely too heavily on tuition anyways.

Large endowments are not always a straight forward metric to use for determining how well off financially an institution is. Lots of contributions to endowments come with strings attached on how the money can be spent. Wouldn't be surprised to hear about a large number of new costs associated with COVID that wouldn't be covered by a lot of an endowment.

[1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/05/22/colleges-face...

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#65

Post by chansiky »

roenxi wrote: post #10

I'm not sure if this gentleman has a thesis but Harvard online education is worth not much. The whole value proposition of Harvard is that you socialise and bond with the sort of people who get in to Harvard. You probably have the phone number of whoever runs Goldman Sachs [0] and you know the President of Whereveristan's daughter because she was in your class. The little things in life. It is possible but unlikely t…

I would argue that a large part of the value proposition of Harvard is it's brand name. Its a sort of veblen good that is intrinsically tied to a person when they attain it.

But yes, most technical knowledge is not very valuable in and of itself, especially in the information age.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#66

Post by paulgb »

throwawaybab323 wrote: post #40
paulgb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't get a Harvard degree on Coursera though. To get the degree you have to be accepted to a degree program, and being accepted to a Harvard degree program is much of what the degree signals.

Well actually you can. The degree is listed as from harvard along with the program. Getting accepted is a joke all you need is a undergraduate gpa of a 3.0.

I can't seem to find this. Is it Harvard Extension School or actual Harvard?

(Not to diminish the extension school; I have a credit from it and I was satisfied at the quality of instruction, but the admissions is definitely not the same as Harvard admission)

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#67

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

naiveprogrammer wrote: post #24
tmaly wrote: post #18

Freshman year is the real deal. Its where you meet new friends and bond. I cannot really see the value of an online only first year. I see this also as an opportunity to improve the online aspect of education. I remember one of my electrical engineering classes had all the lectures recorded and available at the library. This was before YouTube. But it was great that you could re-watch them for points you missed. Bett…

In other words, you pay what you pay to attend Harvard, to a large extent, because of its network effects. And that is really the reason at the end of the day. This is especially true in areas where network is expected to be a big factor --think Economics, Law, Business. And that's why you pay that much to go to Harvard, to gain access to their network.

That's writing off a lot of the educational benefits of a university. YouTube lectures don't recreate the college educational experience. You don't get the group sections with the TA, office hours, personal feedback on your assignments, a group of students studying the same thing who you can work with, undergrad research experience, personal tutoring from graduate students (which undergrads at some elite universities like Harvard and Oxbridge get through their dorms), etc.

Most people don't pay much to attend Harvard anyways. Only the rich pay anything near full tuition. It's probably cheaper for the average family than most state colleges.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#68

Post by mennis16 »

throwawaybab323 wrote: post #63
mennis16 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edX. But also they really are not the same courses, at least the MIT courses on edX are not the same as "real" MIT courses (or what they put on OCW). Video lectures are separately planned/recorded to be shorter duration "modules", which decreases the depth and sometimes also results in entire topics being cut out. Assignments are heavily simplified. There is no proper replacement for recitations/office hours. And so…

Wow this reads like the narcissistic stuff you would find on r/cscareerquestions.

It is a fact that edX courses are developed separately and with a different target audience in mind. The material is demonstrably different. They are a nice resource, but they are not an argument that Harvard classes are "worth $20"

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#69

Post by marcosdumay »

eezurr wrote: post #2

I couldn't finish reading this. While interesting, I sense a lot of hype, and deliberate bending of meaning (e.g. federal government less strict about requiring college degree -> all companies less strict) Traditional college is not just about information scarcity either. People also go to bond, network, participate in extracurricular groups, party, etc. Traditional college isnt going to go anywhere. Also, it's depre…

> We need to stop using technology to tear apart the social fabric of society.

Yes, we need to start using it to weave a new fabric. And universities are some of the best places to try this.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#70

Post by enumjorge »

thehappypm wrote: post #30

I always hear the argument that college/grad school is silly because you can go read the textbooks yourself. It requires an immense amount of motivation to grind away reading 80 pages of a boring CS textbook every day. The structure and motivation provided by an institution encourages people to go deeper, meet deadlines, and not just skim the boring stuff. It isn't the only way to learn, but when I did a master's deg…

Not only that but the actual college experience can be very valuable too. There’s a reason why people find it hard to make friends after college. It’s about the last time you will be spending a lot of time, physically, with a bunch of people your age.

You can get some of that at work, depending on the company, but in a very limited way. You can make friends with co-workers, but you probably shouldn’t go partying with them for example. You probably shouldn’t date someone you met at work, but dating someone you met in one of your classes is more natural.

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