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U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

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Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#121

Post by rvz »

japhyr wrote: post #102
aahhahahaaa wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm uncertain. It seems possible that many of these people think they're doing good things?

They sure do. We have a White House filled with white supremacists and career grifters. All of these people think they're doing good things; they just have a different idea than I do of who deserves "good things".

> We have a White House filled with white supremacists and career grifters

I know right? Lots of white supremacists everywhere in the White House with the grand wizard as POTUS spewing 'this hate' all over the place /s. Meanwhile in the 'peaceful' CHAZ/CHOP, they also reported that their experiment turned out to be a pretty good thing for eveyone as 'a summer of love'. /s

It's too easy to label and categorize anything you dislike as the most extreme side of the political spectrum. The same is done on both sides. The difference is however, is that you need to give the strongest form of evidence you can find to prove that the White House is filled with these 'white supremacists' as you claim.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#122

Post by LiquidSky »

lefrenchy wrote: post #112

Such an embarrassing blunder, of many blunders, for this administration.

This was election year red meat for Trump's base, which his campaign has explicitly made their sole focus. It lets them tell the true believers that Trump tried to keep the evil foreigners out but the liberal deep state traitors stopped him, that's why they need to keep supporting Trump. That's what's behind all of these absurd attacks on immigrants, queer people, etc that instantly get struck down.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#123

Post by avgDev »

tomp wrote: post #92
yingw787 wrote: post #65

Yeah this isn't a viable way to formulate public policy. It isn't new either, happened with the travel ban early on. Soft power, and even the viability of a country, depends on certain long-term guarantees, guarantees that the current administration has blown away completely. I'm pessimistic that even if a change in administration occurs early next year (and that is a major if), there would be anything any administra…

Us dearh rate is pretty low and excess deaths are almost back to zero. The problematic outlier is just NYC, where the problem was arguably exacerbated by Democratic mayor encouraging NewYorkers to party in Chinatown end of January. Overall Trump’s response was decent. Edit: Looks like this triggered a few people. Low mortality rate: https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countr... Excess deaths almost…

Trump response was decent? Jesus. His lack of leadership resulted in many deaths. His base refuses till this day to wear masks and the southern states and Cali are now in the thick of it. He could not be seen wearing the mask. He called the virus a hoax. He told the US people it will go to 0 very soon. The administration buried their heads in the sand and failed to listen to professionals for a long time. Then, continued giving mixed signals.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#124

Post by notmyfriend »

ben7799 wrote: post #27
ardit33 wrote: post #7

Is this administration very incompetent, or very sadistic? If they rescinded the order, means they: 1) Didn't think through the consequences, or the legality of the order. 2) They just wanted to crate some chaos, and mess up with the foreign kids, while posturing to their base 3) Force universities to stay open in the middle of the pandemic in order to help Trump's reelection bid... (not sure how breakouts of covid i…

#2 - This was just a big distraction to get the ADD media to forget about Russian bounties on US troops.

The Russians seems to be the true master of all evil. They sway elections, they force the us into wars they don't want to and they also always pop up when needed to ensure chaos and deceit. At this point they are a caricature of a Spectre. All Putin is missing is a white cat to stroke. Some critical thinking would be handy around these issues instead of just repeating a mantra.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#125

Post by grandmczeb »

idrios wrote: post #99
grandmczeb wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Lobbying” as the reflexive reason for all political ills is tiresome, especially considering aggressive lobbying by universities is likely what caused this reversal.

That it's tiresome does not invalidate the argument. In fact, if the policy change was made because of university lobbying and not because of the public outcry, that's downright depressing. It means we still had no control over this outcome, we're just lucky that some people in power agreed with us here.

One way public outcry is expressed is through lobbying. Honestly, I think the issue here is that people mistakenly believe lobbying consists of shadowy groups slipping bribes under the table to elected officials when in reality it’s just people coming together to advocate for issues they care about.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#126

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

amf12 wrote: post #100
balls187 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE stated they would have "free rein" not "full rein." The argument is essentially that by allowing students to take online classes, they are free to travel anywhere within the united states. With mandatory in person classes, they would be restricted to being near campus. The federal government would have a harder time keeping track of students, as their schools would no longer really have an idea if the students ar…

> they are free to travel anywhere within the united states. Theoretically that's true for on-campus courses too. Most (at least that I know of) universities don't track attendance. So the students are still free to travel anywhere as long as they keep submitting online assignments and are physically present for any exams.

Attendance is tracked at any university with students that receive federal aid... So most of them.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#127

Post by gnulinux »

mariodiana wrote: post #23

I'm not a lawyer, but how is it Harvard and MIT had standing in court for this case?

Others gave you good answers but also consider this. There are thousands of PhD students who create value for these universities. They not only do research, help research being made, they also teach others. Kicking all these people out of US due to whims of ICE harms universities' financial interest as well. Universities are not making their education remote because they choose to do so. They're doing precisely to protect students and faculty. It's capricious for ICE to see this and conclude "if you do that then I'll kick all your students out of this country". Universities invest in PhD students, they're part of faculty.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#128

Post by gnulinux »

chvid wrote: post #48
ben7799 wrote: post #25

This program was a wild success beyond Trump's wildest dreams. No one is talking about Russian Bounties on US troops. Crisis averted. He just keeps on winning!

Are you serious? To me this adds to the picture of an administration who is about to loose the forthcoming election and is acting more and more eratic. But I am not American so I cannot tell whether this is actually convincing to the broader electorate?

I'm American and I have no idea what's going on either. The admin is behaving very erratic and POTUS is always talking about peripheral issues and doesn't address the current crisis (i.e. COVID, 20% unemployment, depression etc). I don't know if it means they're very confident with themselves that they'll be reelected, or it means they're in a crisis mode trying to find new ways to get more vote.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#129

Post by minkzilla »

charonn0 wrote: post #80
xyzzyz wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the last one in 2018-19, under Democrat President Trump.

That's a unique case of the executive shutting itself down.

Do the 1 under Bush and 3 under Reagan not count as well?

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#130

Post by bredren »

ngngngng wrote: post #104

A well known religious University near me just started offering "in person" (wink wink) classes where attendance would not be taken. I was proud to see it.

The criteria was actual not very challenging to meet. I think part of the reason they backed off was because the intent was not enforceable.
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