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Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

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Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#231

Post by roywiggins »

Pamar wrote: post #215
crdrost wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that you can also, while you're at it, abolish rounding. You already have this in some sense on gas pumps: the price advertised has taxes included so you are not always playing guess-the-final-total with your money. Just pass a law that requires fair advertising of the actual amount the purchaser will pay, taxes etc. included. If there are special circumstances that might make certain people exempt from a tax --…

Well, yes, this... I am European and during my brief stay in the USA the fact that taxes were added at the cashier was awkward. I am sure you had your reasons and if you grow up in that sustem you won't notice much, but it looks a bit counterintuitive to foreigners.

It's insisted upon by anti-tax advocates, so that Americans always get reminded about exactly how much the government is adding onto the price. Otherwise, the theory goes, we would get too happy about taxes.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#232

Post by ngngngng »

gojomo wrote: post #193

The best plan is to re-base all pennies to be worth 5¢, as described by Austan Goolsbee here: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/01/business/01scenes.html This is (very) mildly stimulative/inflationary, and in the time leading up to en expected re-basing, accelerates the phase-out of the 1¢ penny (as people hoard in expectation of a 5x return). But as of the moment of re-basing, it flushes all those penny-jars out into…

So I should start collecting pennies then, yes? 500% returns you say?

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#233

Post by ping_pong »

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #5

Yes. Canada stopped producing pennies in the fall of 2012. [0] The sky didn't fall. There was no great debate, no public opinion polls and politicians swearing heartily about the demise of our great nation. (Ok that's probably not true. For too many politicians that's all they do.) There was resistance when Canada dropped the $1 bill in favour of a Loonie (a $1 coin with the image of a loon on it). People bitched abo…

The difference is that the Canadian Federal government is extremely powerful and the provinces have very little power.

In the US, the States are very powerful and the Federal government is much weaker comparatively. For anything to be done collectively across the entire US, it requires cooperation from all states, otherwise one of them can screw everything up. That inherently means more talking, more coordination, more meetings, etc.

It's the fundamental difference in how each country was forme and the system that they pursued. In some ways it's better and in some ways its worse. That's why you can have very powerful states like California dictate a lot of their own destiny, but then when it comes time for a national crisis like a pandemic, everything is fucked because the US Federal government doesn't have the same level of control and power as in Canada. In Canada you didn't get the inane policy of each province buying its own PPE like in the States, driving up prices because they are all fighting each other.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#234

Post by scarface74 »

gojomo wrote: post #221
saagarjha wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would check 18 U.S. Code §331 (fraudulently defacing currency) before doing that.

There would be no fraud in scratching 'ONE CENT' off of pennies that were, by law, worth 5¢. But also, when was the last prosecution for defacing a coin in the United States? What sort of monster would call the police on a fellow person for passing a damaged penny? How would the prosecution's burden of proof be met? (Be a currency hacker, like Satoshi or Woz – https://hackaday.com/2012/08/03/woz-prints-and-spend-his-…

What sort of monster would call the police on a fellow person for passing a damaged penny?

These types:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/central-park-video-dog-vid...

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/black-man-police-comcast/

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/06/03/cops-draw-gun...

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/23/ohio-cops-called-black-kids-p...

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#235

Post by rootusrootus »

torgoguys wrote: post #134
bzb3 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the item is $4.00, then after tax it is $4.56, which rounds down to $4.55. Everybody who lived the transition to the Euro knows that this is not what will happen. Prices will be always rounded up.

That would probably be illegal in most jurisdictions in the US. I don't understand the big fuss over rounding in the discussion of eliminating the penny. Rounding happens. We already round sales tax up or down to the nearest penny--this would just round up or down to the nearest nickel. But while we are on the subject, I think we should eliminate nickels and quarters at the same time as the penny and just round to th…

> Let's put the 50 cent piece of of its misery while we are at it too--just dollars and dimes

You forgot quarters, which are perhaps the most common coin. How about we eliminate pennies, nickles, dimes, half-dollars, and dollar bills, and just use quarters and dollars?

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#236

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

Cactus2018 wrote: post #226

In the Netherlands > In 1980, production of the 1-cent coin ceased and was demonetized three years later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_guilder#Coins > In 1999 replaced by the Euro, and gained 1-cent and 2-cent coins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_euro_cent_coin The one- and two-cent coins were initially introduced in order to ensure that the introduction of the euro was not used as an excuse by retailers to…

The claim that 0.01€ coins produced elsewhere remain legal tender in the rounding countries, does not hold for Finland. No supermarket is going to accept 1- or 2-cent coins for payment even if you had enough to add up to the nearest 5-cent unit.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#237

Post by undersuit »

gonational wrote: post #176

The nickel then becomes the new penny. This propaganda is part of the inflationary process, which is intended to increase economic velocity at or faster than the rate of savings, at the expense of savings. Soon, a dollar will be thought of the way we think of a quarter, and the quarter will become the new dime. Decent family homes will cost north of $2.5MM, and people will say, “back when I was a kid...”.

This comment is at the very bottom of the comments right now and I'm glad I looked for it.

I agree by killing the penny we essentially force inflation to happen. Bread priced at $.99 can be sold at $.98 far more easily than bread priced $1 can be sold at $.95. By removing the penny our jumps become more volatile. Something increasing in cost by a penny or two might take a product from 99¢ to $1 or reduce the profit margin a bit now, but when there is no penny the $1 product that needs to cost 2¢ more is going to cost $1.05.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#238

Post by bargle0 »

DonHopkins wrote: post #70
klyrs wrote: post #46

As an American living in Canada, I gotta say. Pennies and dollar bills SUCK. We have $1 and $2 coins and they're actually useful. Every time I visit home, I end up with piles of pennies and wads of stinky, tattered, overcirculated garbage bills. If you accumulate a pile $1 and $2 coins, nobody looks askance if you plunk down a stack of them. But god, the glares if you want to spend $20 in dollar bills. I say take it…

Yes, nickles should definitely go. But since money is decimal, dimes make more sense. (10 cents exactly) But because of quarters you still probably need nickels. Or you could just go binary use halves, quarters and eighths.

Yeah, I want pirate money with pieces of eight. And the phrase “two bits” will make sense again.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#239

Post by jpindar »

torgoguys wrote: post #134
bzb3 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the item is $4.00, then after tax it is $4.56, which rounds down to $4.55. Everybody who lived the transition to the Euro knows that this is not what will happen. Prices will be always rounded up.

That would probably be illegal in most jurisdictions in the US. I don't understand the big fuss over rounding in the discussion of eliminating the penny. Rounding happens. We already round sales tax up or down to the nearest penny--this would just round up or down to the nearest nickel. But while we are on the subject, I think we should eliminate nickels and quarters at the same time as the penny and just round to th…

I was going to say, imagine no more sorting coins since we'd only have one kind - but then I realized I never do that anyway, the Coinstar machine does it for me.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#240

Post by greenshackle2 »

jwigg wrote: post #218
jellicle wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone uses an electronic POS system and it will round however the manufacturer told it to round (which will be correctly). The only people you have to worry about cheating you out of 3-4 cents in a world without pennies (the maximum you can be cheated) would be people without electronic systems. Which is to say, no one.

> it will round however the manufacturer told it to round (which will be correctly) either you're way too optimistic, or i'm way too pessimistic, but lemme tell you, we do not see eye-to-eye on that point.

Do you believe that they are already screwing you out of fractional cents? After all there is already rounding going on.

Concretely, $1.20 with 7% tax is $1.284, do you believe merchants would charge you $1.29?

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