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Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

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Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#191

Post by Taniwha »

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #5

Yes. Canada stopped producing pennies in the fall of 2012. [0] The sky didn't fall. There was no great debate, no public opinion polls and politicians swearing heartily about the demise of our great nation. (Ok that's probably not true. For too many politicians that's all they do.) There was resistance when Canada dropped the $1 bill in favour of a Loonie (a $1 coin with the image of a loon on it). People bitched abo…

The correct way to change your sales-tax structure is simply to require stores quote the tax-included prices of things (like every other freaking country). It's not hard, and since businesses basically pick 'nice' values for prices, they just keep doing it.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#192

Post by walshemj »

beojan wrote: post #95
talideon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's the case myself. While I do think that the parliamentary system is better than the congressional system, I think it's more that the parliamentary system emphasises consensus-building and executive accountability more. This is especially apparent in countries where a form of proportional representation is used for elections.

> This is especially apparent in countries where a form of proportional representation is used for elections. Proportional representation is almost a necessary condition for the parliamentary system to encourage consensus-building. More specifically, it's necessary that no party hold an absolute majority. With first-past-the-post, you usually end up with one party having full control for one term, and no one to hold…

Except when you get fringe parties holding the balance of power.

With some of the NI parties screwing over conservative governments its why NI doesn't have the same laws as the UK

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#193

Post by gojomo »

The best plan is to re-base all pennies to be worth 5¢, as described by Austan Goolsbee here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/01/business/01scenes.html

This is (very) mildly stimulative/inflationary, and in the time leading up to en expected re-basing, accelerates the phase-out of the 1¢ penny (as people hoard in expectation of a 5x return). But as of the moment of re-basing, it flushes all those penny-jars out into spending/circulation.

Congress could do this tomorrow, effective immediately or in a week or month. Maybe the Treasury Department/Administration could do it on their own authority.

(The only significant opposition is likely to be from suppliers of nickel-minting metals. So maybe we just rebase pennies as 10¢.)

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#194

Post by walshemj »

paulie_a wrote: post #75
nordsieck wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not just re-value it instead? > For example, make its value $1000. The US used to have $1000 bills (and $10,000 bills, but those were only for internal gov't use). I'm pretty sure we're stuck with $100 as the top denomination to make organized crime more difficult. Also, it's WAY easier to counterfeit a coin than a bill.

In the EU a 500 note basically means you deal drugs. I think they were doing away with them entirely.

Some countries like to play for things like cars in cash

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#195

Post by [deleted] »

horsawlarway wrote: post #167
berbec wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then how do I know when my Mustang hits 88 bald eagle wingspan per Budweisercan?

Because I found it entertaining - If we assume it takes about 15 seconds to chug a bud, and that an eagle's wingspan is about 6ft, this leads to 528ft/15s, or ~24Mph. Either you need a faster car, you chug your beer quickly, or you grow some oversized eagles.

[deleted]

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#196

Post by jcrawfordor »

Loughla wrote: post #174
jellicle wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone uses an electronic POS system and it will round however the manufacturer told it to round (which will be correctly). The only people you have to worry about cheating you out of 3-4 cents in a world without pennies (the maximum you can be cheated) would be people without electronic systems. Which is to say, no one.

I just disagree with this. We will see Wal-Mart and other chain retailers make their own POS software/systems. 3-4 cents isn't a lot. Unless it's added up by all of the people shopping in those places over the course of a year. The incentive to cheat the system is there, therefore the system will 100% be cheated. That's The American Way, in my experience.

Wal-Mart is also a huge corporation and every single attorney general, not to mention the FTC, would be delighted to learn that they're so clearly and unambiguously violating the law...

This kind of fraud would be so easy to detect I just can't see it occurring on any large scale. The problem would be with small "mom and pop" businesses that could do it for some time without being noticed.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#197

Post by jachee »

Loughla wrote: post #174
jellicle wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone uses an electronic POS system and it will round however the manufacturer told it to round (which will be correctly). The only people you have to worry about cheating you out of 3-4 cents in a world without pennies (the maximum you can be cheated) would be people without electronic systems. Which is to say, no one.

I just disagree with this. We will see Wal-Mart and other chain retailers make their own POS software/systems. 3-4 cents isn't a lot. Unless it's added up by all of the people shopping in those places over the course of a year. The incentive to cheat the system is there, therefore the system will 100% be cheated. That's The American Way, in my experience.

As foretold in Superman III and The Office.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#198

Post by gregjor »

refurb wrote: post #183
stilley2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a key difference between US policy & Canadian policy that I have informally noticed while growing up on the border (with family ties on both sides). My wife's Canadian and I'm American, and we've discussed this point too. My theory is that Canada's parliamentary system generally puts one party in charge of the executive and legislative, so it's easier for that party to get things done. Of course there are t…

As someone who has lived on both sides of the border, my theory is that Canadians are just less politically active. I can remember major bills coming for vote and sure, you'd see a few news articles, but rarely did it become entrenched in daily discussion. I actually liked the US approach when I first arrived - "how great! everyone is passionate about politics!". I find it somewhat draining now. There is almost no pa…

I wonder why my immigrant friends get so passionate about American politics. I find it mostly boring.

I think you’re not describing real political passion or engagement, though — Americans can get quite worked up about politics but we’re not all that engaged, or passionate enough to lobby for real change. Politics serve as signs of tribal affiliation and self-identity, and sometimes as a way to bludgeon other people. In that sense talking about politics is similar to, and as pointless as, arguing about sports. We (Americans) actually don’t show much real engagement if you look at voter turnout.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#199

Post by lostapathy »

jdhawk wrote: post #189
lostapathy wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the reasons are so obvious. Surely very little metal is turned into pennies compared to the quantities consumed by industrial processes.

last year they made 8.4BN pennies, which would be about 21 million KG of Zinc, worth about ~$40 million?

That's a lot of money, but not "change public policy" levels of cash, either.

On the other side, handling pennies is expensive for businesses and banks, I bet it costs at least that much. There are special interests on both sides of this.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#200

Post by kps »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #135
hoorayimhelping wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't until I went to the UK in my late 20s that I realized how badly America needs coins in the dollar and two dollar denomination. Having spare coins with weight and mass rather than loose dollar bills helped me get a sense of how many loose singles I had, and being able to drop a couple coins on a counter to pay for cheap items (a bag of M&Ms, a cup of coffee) is somehow, I don't know how, but somehow more erg…

The US actually has one dollar coins, and it's common for vending machines to spit them out as change. They're the exact same size as the Canadian loonie.

So is a 2p coin. But the only machines that can't tell them apart are candy dispensers and old mechanical parking meters.
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