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Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

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251–260 of 481 posts

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#251

It is increasingly appears that the CCP government wants to confront every countries at the same time. First, I thought this was just the power struggle/grab between US-CCP economically. Then, it spread to the political issues like the South China sea claims which pisses off Viet Nam, The Philippines , Taiwan. The CCP even manages to engage India into its territorial issue resulted in sanction from Indian gov. In the…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_island_chain CCP try to break US's seal, guess you forgot U.S. military bases around the world.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#252
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place. That way we can collapse it and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of thread.

[flagged]

"Always" is a strong word. Usually it just means you noticed some things that you dislike [1]. The problem is that we're all far more likely to notice such cases and to weight them more strongly, so before long we've sample-biased ourselves to "always". The other side feels the opposite "always" [2]. Same mechanism in both cases. It always feels like the mods are against you, just as the refs are always against your team and you're always the one who gets the speeding ticket.

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

[2] Here is an example I just ran across: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19956161

also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20136743

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17823494

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17806125

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#254
post #9

This kind of thing is going to play out a lot over the next few years. It's a tough question: how to marry globalisation with the political realities. When China was very poor, it didn't really matter, or perhaps the assumption was that China would liberalise more quickly than it has. But China, while increasingly mature economically, has not developed proper civil society, human rights, freedom of expression, democr…

Jeez as a Chinese person who lives in USA I find this comment very condescending and offensive. > But China, while increasingly mature economically, has not developed proper civil society, human rights, freedom of expression, democracy, and so on. I don’t want to get into a whataboutism debate about all the human rights violations the USA has engaged in (yes Trump but Obama as well and W before him and etc). But real…

1. I agree that "proper civil society" is rather questionable as criticism of China goes, but do the others not apply? I think they clearly seem to be points of commentary on the Chinese political system, which isn't a reflection of a race/ethnicity. I have no trouble believing that comments that you have received throughout your life were in bad faith. I've heard similar (at least in sentiment) comments about the society in my parents' country of origin. However, I think the majority of those comments (as with the ones in question here) fit into the bucket of clearly criticizing a social structure that applies to but does not immutably define the people living in it, and certainly doesn't apply to you if you live outside of it.

2. On a slightly different note, I think that while whataboutism is generally neither productive nor relevant, in this case a small amount could be relevant because the implication is that some other countries have developed to a state of "proper civil society, [...] democracy, and so on" while China has not. If the claim relates China to some base standard in the author's mind, then pointing out failings in those places seems like an attack on the point itself, but I don't know whether the US was at the top of their mind when crafting that sentence.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#255
post #32

The China-US tensions are not going to get better, and, in fact, will get worse as years go by. More and more nations will be forced to choose sides. It's not good and I'm not sure what a resolution even looks like.

I'm not sure it's just a China-US thing. I think Europe will increasingly find itself taking a role. India too. To clarify, while US-China superficially seem like the 'sides'. Really, what I think is happening is that the values of many (especially Western) countries around human rights, democracy, freedom of religion and expression, are coming into conflict with a new kind of Chinese authoritarianism that really doe…

The annexation of Tibet was in 1951, claims to Taiwan have always been there, and the subjugation of millions is nothing new (Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution were in the 50s and 60s).

I think people are just waking up to the reality that the opening of China will not automatically lead to greater liberalism as was predicted.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When mass uprisings are necessary for even a serious discussion of the problem (intention to resolve it is nowhere in sight) - then, yes, killing by cops is being ignored and has been ignored.

I strongly disagree. If you care enough about an issue to repeatedly go outside during a pandemic and protest, then you are not ignoring it. The set of 'Westerners' does not exclude the protesters.

_You_ aren't ignoring it - your representative have been ignoring it (and effectively and mostly, still are; they're just making a bit of noise in the hope that the protest goes away.)

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#257

And we already know China has been backdooring other equipment: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h... So yes, this is a small victory in a massive war.

The cost of that victory, according to the BBC, is a 1 year delay in the rollout of 5G tech. That's a pretty large economic cost. Bob can't watch his medical lectures on the train, so ends up behind in class, Mary's company looses a contract to a foreign competitor because she got frustrated with her bad VPN and didn't read over the bid one last time, Fred couldn't afford the cost of the new 5G contracts so didn't ge…

Wow, the stories of Mary and Bob was truly eye-opening. And don’t even mention poor Fred...

Guess I’m on team Huawei now!

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#259
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good analysis. You aren't seeing a constant drumbeat of bad China news because the US suddenly cares very deeply about Muslim lives - otherwise we'd be hearing a lot more about India, for example. China threatens the US' global hegemony. To the extent people in power care about China's political system, it is used to rope in liberals to an anti-China stance and manufacture consent for various measures again…

The comparison with India is wrong, or you don't understand the scale of what is happening in China. For starters, India is not re-educating anyone.

the real kashmir massacre 2019 nobody cares unfortunately

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Proper civil society and human rights" - like the ones afforded to Julian Assange? Or the treatment of the Grenfell tower victims' families? Glass houses etc.

Yes, nobody's hands are clean here. There is, however, a pretty big gulf between the stuff the US has done and engaging in ethnic cleansing and running concentration camps as a matter of policy. The difference is massive, and well known. Please don't try to falsely equate the two.

> There is, however, a pretty big gulf between the stuff the US has done and engaging in ethnic cleansing and running concentration camps as a matter of policy.

A big gulf. Hmm. A big gulf. Umm, maybe you mean the Gulf of Aden? That's kind of big, and it's right near where the US participating and supporting the ethnic-cleansing-level siege and bombardment of Yemen by Saudi Arabia.

Remember most states of the US were founded on ethnic cleansing. The US supported Pol Pot, a notorious cleanser (although more of a self-ethnic-cleansing); it carried out mass bombing and poisoning campaigns in the same region of SE Asia, which constitute ethnic cleansing; it starved out the Iraqi people for years, which is borderline ethnic cleansing; it's doing the same to Venezuela right now; it supports Israel, an ethnic/religious-supremacy state held up by keeping the indigenous people of the country outside of it, as refugees - to ensure a demographic majority for the privileged group; it has supported Myanmar/Burma, while it ethnically cleanses the Rohingya; it has supported and still occasionally supports Sunni fundamentalists who aim to cleanse non-Muslims, Shia etc.

As for concentration camps - the US is infamous for its concentration camps. Mostly in countries it occupies, but also for a significant fraction of its citizenry - over 1% if I'm not mistaken. They're more class-based than strictly race-based, but still.

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