Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

mobile.reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 632 posts

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#201

Post by Slartie »

dlivingston wrote: post #152
monkeyfacebag wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't the ads largely targeted to non-owners? Even if I agreed with your point, I just don't see how it's relevant.

I’m actually confused by the phrase “ads”, because my understanding is that Tesla has an advertising budget of $0. I assume they’re referring to marketing materials (pamphlets, websites, etc).

But that stuff is particularly relevant for non-owners as well and thus must be judged primarily through the eyes of non-owners. It doesn't matter whether Tesla pays anyone for screen time or whatever to get their message to receptive eyeballs - these eyeballs are those of non-owners which Tesla wants to convert to Tesla owners, that's the point.

The ban in question relates to any kind of marketing material, whether it is on Tesla's website or part of advertisement billboards.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#202

Post by frenchy »

smnrchrds wrote: post #122
jdminhbg wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also almost certainly true. Whether you think LIDAR-based systems are the way to go, there's no doubt that full self-driving based on cameras is possible given the right software. That's what humans are, after all, so it's "just" a matter of building the software to drive that hardware.

Apple, HP, etc should take note and sell their laptops as "have the hardware needed for full AGI capability." Chemistry kits with a sample of every element in the periodic table should advertise them as "have all the materials needed for COVID-19 vaccine."

> Chemistry kits with a sample of every element in the periodic table should advertise them as "have all the materials needed for COVID-19 vaccine.

Not that this invalidates your point at all, but doing that literally would actually be extremely expensive and difficult for some of the elements.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#203

Post by fluffything »

Alupis wrote: post #11
H8crilA wrote: post #2

Tesla has been selling level 5 autonomy since 2016. I can see nothing wrong with that. Definitely not vaporware /s https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now...

I realize this is a sarcastic comment, but I think this illustrates the problem. Tesla vehicles cannot operate fully autonomous as-of now. Tesla has no idea if they'll need to replace or upgrade hardware either. They simply have not solved the problem yet, but want everyone to buy into the hype. And, the hype machine is working, unfortunately.

> Tesla has no idea if they'll need to replace or upgrade hardware either.

They have upgraded the hardware 3 times already.

Maybe the hardware in the last generation of Tesla's suffices, but right now, nobody knows.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#205

Post by itsoktocry »

drcross wrote: post #184
dave5104 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk isn't an idiot, he's overseen some great things at the companies he runs, and I hope the companies he's running continue pushing technology forward. But Musk as a human isn't so great. He'd do better to keep his mouth shut sometimes, and lay off Twitter every now and again. Between falsely accusing people of being pedophiles, claiming to take Tesla private in a tweet, and various other "incidents", he's kind of…

>But Musk as a human isn't so great. I would be very hesitant to criticise someone who has arguably done/will do more for the continuation for humanity than anyone else who has ever lived. Maybe it's your definition of "isn't great" that needs re-calibration.

>who has arguably done/will do more for the continuation for humanity than anyone else who has ever lived.

Because he's building some electric cars? How low is your bar?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#206

Post by kalenx »

Domenic_S wrote: post #98
kalenx wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "why" is not really relevant here, the general perception is. The fact is, if you say "autopilot" and "self driving capabilities" to most people, they will infer that the car does not need a driver to be operated safely, which is definitely not the case.

How do you know what most people think? Could this be a case where the small minority of people are the loudest?

Well, if an airplane/boat pilot formation is required to get the "right" definition of the word autopilot, there is a problem, IMHO.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#207

Post by JJMcJ »

drcross wrote: post #186
JJMcJ wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But autopilot is explicitly a term for hands off operation. In general, in driving, things happen too fast for any control assist system to allow hands off driving. EDIT: Any existing control assist system And I don't think we are that close, since "self driving cars" still seem to be limited to "driving at 25 MPH around Mountain View and Sunnyvale where the curbs and streets have been pre-mapped to within inches".

>But autopilot is explicitly a term for hands off operation. I see you've never skippered a boat.

No, just the common understanding of autopilot for aircraft.

I assume, just like with cars, things can happen quickly with a boat.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#208

Post by awad »

nemothekid wrote: post #123
reubenswartz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you driven one? There is plenty of (over)hype, but the cars are quite nice.

I have, and I also adore the cars, my next car will likely be a Tesla and I own the stock. I've spent a lot of time researching the company so I didn't come to this conclusion by being bitter over the company. I think it's important to point out that the success of the company is largely built on the mythos of the man rather than the objective success of the cars. Tesla, earlier this week reached a market cap exceedi…

This isn't a comment on the advertising but I am struck by how Tesla and Elon Musk remind me of Apple and Steve Jobs. Both very divisive companies and leaders prone to downright emotional attacks from one side and staunch defense by the other. While has been quite a bit of hyperbole, overselling, and straight up failure to deliver, you can't dispute that both pushed their respective industries forward almost singlehandedly and consequently reap the financial success.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#209

Post by Slartie »

natch wrote: post #113
FabHK wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.tesla.com/de_de/models > Hardware für autonomes Fahren Jedes neue Model S verfügt standardmäßig über modernste Hardware, um die Autopilot-Funktionalität schon heute und vollkommen autonomes Fahren in der Zukunft zu ermöglichen. Software-Updates werden diese Funktionalität im Laufe der Zeit weiter ausbauen und verbessern. > Die Autopilot-Funktionalität ermöglicht dem Fahrzeug automatisches Lenken, Beschleu…

That’s a web site though, not an advertisement. Was asking about advertisements.

That web site clearly advertises a Tesla car. Hence it is an advertisement.

Maybe you meant to say "TV commercial"? The German law doesn't make that distinction though, which means that blatantly false claims about capabilities of a product are just as illegal on the products' website as they are in a products' TV commercial.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#210

Post by fluffything »

H8crilA wrote: post #9
frenchy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it should be called level 5 autonomy until Tesla is willing to take responsibility for any accidents it causes.

Not sure about that, but I'm sure it's not "full self driving capability". It has not been the case ever since they started advertising in 2016.

When a plane auto-pilot fails (e.g. Boeing 737-MAX), the manufacturer is responsible for the failure and its consequences.

That has always been the definition of auto-pilot.

Tesla might be able to redefine the term in the US, but this ruling is proof that other countries disagree with that.

Whatever Tesla is shipping isn't an autopilot, and calling it that is just deceptive marketing.

Post reply on HN