Resignation Letter • Hacker News Board

Re: Resignation Letter

#71

Post by minikites » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #46

alecb wrote: post #4

There's several layers of irony here, chief of which Bari Weiss headed a very vocal campaign to fire anyone at Colombia who didn't exist on the far-right on Israel/Palestine - and of course, falsely painted several professors as racist and anti-Semitic: https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals...

Hilarious that the top comment exemplifies the problem. It seems few today are still able to engage with ideas directly, always trying to filter them through some, any, lens to discredit the ones they don’t like. Sometimes it’s attacking the speaker, sometimes their associations, sometimes the tweets they have “liked.” If all else fails, seek out language in the text itself for unfalsifiable “dog whistles” that allow…

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Re: Resignation Letter

#72

Post by larrywright » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #15

Speaking as someone who absorbs American media externally, there does seem to be a disconnect looking in. About 40% of the America seems to still support Donald Trump, under most polls. It certainly isn't true that 40% of the media supports Donald Trump. As an external viewer, it's easy to imagine no-one was ever going to vote for Donald Trump, no-one ever supported him, and no-one supports him today, but that's clea…

The True Trump Believers tend to gravitate towards fringe news sources online. Breitbart and The Blaze are probably the most well known, but there are many others. Most of the others are basically Wordpress blogs with a theme that makes them look like a news site. They run the gamut from “slightly right of center politically”, to “racist and not really trying to hide it”.

All this to say, if you’re consuming popular American news sites and TV channels, you’ll see almost nothing that paints Trump in a positive light. The fringe sources typically portray him as the savior America needs.

I’m not a Trump supporter in the least, but I do scan some of the milder fringe sites periodically just to see what the conversation is like there. It’s useful to see what the world looks like through their eyes. But I don’t linger long, because some of it is truly awful.

Re: Resignation Letter

#73

Post by eej71 » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #55

mikece wrote: post #39

"And so self-censorship has become the norm." This might be the most ironic and most dangerous effect of this "right think" regime: that the free expression and exchange of ideas is thwarted in advance because one doesn't want to deal with drama, fight, or insults that come with saying something not in lock-step with the prevailing group-think. This blunts the curiosity of the intellect and silences all true disciple…

You're assuming "both sides" have an equally valid point of view. Tom Cotton's racist op-ed and COVID denialism are two current examples where one side is definitely wrong. Bari believes there shouldn't be consequences for saying dangerously wrong things.

I read the Tom Cotton op-ed and didn't find any racist element to it. It would be interesting to have you highlight which paragraph was racist in your eyes.

Re: Resignation Letter

#74

Post by Veen » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

caycep wrote: post #17

alecb wrote: post #4

There's several layers of irony here, chief of which Bari Weiss headed a very vocal campaign to fire anyone at Colombia who didn't exist on the far-right on Israel/Palestine - and of course, falsely painted several professors as racist and anti-Semitic: https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals...

Also reading the tone of her columns and the accusations she's made in them, I read anything she writes with a very large grain of salt...

How about you mention some of the accusations you're referring to instead of making an unsubstantiated accusation of your own.

Re: Resignation Letter

#75

Post by seibelj » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

deleuze wrote: post #61

seibelj wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the latest argument from people who claim cancel culture doesn't exist. "How are you being silenced when everyone will read it from your high perch?" High-level writers need to push back against illiberal and anti-free speech proponents to give cover for the lower ranks. If even the top tier writers can't speak their mind, does the lowly intern or new hire stand a chance?

I'll start caring more about this "silencing" once the NYT editorial board starts including viewpoints that are actually silenced in our society. Until then, it's just whining about no longer being free from criticism.

The "I concede you may be right but I simply don't care" argument, a form of "what-about-ism". It's possible to believe in free speech and want to promote marginalized voices simultaneously. You don't need to silence disagreement.

Re: Resignation Letter

#76

Post by zug_zug » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

alecb wrote: post #4

There's several layers of irony here, chief of which Bari Weiss headed a very vocal campaign to fire anyone at Colombia who didn't exist on the far-right on Israel/Palestine - and of course, falsely painted several professors as racist and anti-Semitic: https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals...

It may be ironic, but to pursue truth most rigorously, we should recognize the two points are logically independent.

It's possible that these accusations are true and also that Weiss is a person with a political agenda.

Re: Resignation Letter

#77

Post by AnimalMuppet » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #10

ReptileMan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since she hasn't filed discrimination lawsuit, I read it as mocking the victim culture that prevades the others.

I don't see how this can be read as mockery: > There are terms for all of this: unlawful discrimination, hostile work environment, and constructive discharge. I’m no legal expert. But I know that this is wrong. This is what claiming victimhood looks like.

Some of the incidents she described sound a lot like a hostile work environment to me...

Re: Resignation Letter

#78

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

alecb wrote: post #4

There's several layers of irony here, chief of which Bari Weiss headed a very vocal campaign to fire anyone at Colombia who didn't exist on the far-right on Israel/Palestine - and of course, falsely painted several professors as racist and anti-Semitic: https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals...

[deleted]

Re: Resignation Letter

#79

Post by swsieber » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

ngngngng wrote: post #47

jgwil2 wrote: post #14

> Americans still hunger for news that is accurate, opinions that are vital, and debate that is sincere. The market would suggest otherwise.

Completely disagree. And I think Joe Rogan's podcast is the perfect example of how the market is suggesting exactly what you replied to. "Normal Americans" don't read the NYT anymore, or WSJ, or the Post, they listen to Joe Rogan on Spotify and Youtube. There's virtually no limit to who Joe will have on his show, and while he's not a remarkable interviewer, he brings the often vital opinions of his guests on all side…

> "Normal Americans" don't read the NYT anymore, or WSJ, or the Post, they listen to Joe Rogan on Spotify and Youtube

Really? This is the first I've heard of the guy, from anyone anywhere on the political spectrum.

Re: Resignation Letter

#80

Post by horsemessiah » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #46

alecb wrote: post #4

There's several layers of irony here, chief of which Bari Weiss headed a very vocal campaign to fire anyone at Colombia who didn't exist on the far-right on Israel/Palestine - and of course, falsely painted several professors as racist and anti-Semitic: https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals...

Hilarious that the top comment exemplifies the problem. It seems few today are still able to engage with ideas directly, always trying to filter them through some, any, lens to discredit the ones they don’t like. Sometimes it’s attacking the speaker, sometimes their associations, sometimes the tweets they have “liked.” If all else fails, seek out language in the text itself for unfalsifiable “dog whistles” that allow…

This comment is not explemifying the problem, as you put it. It's pointing out the hypocrisy of this author for condemning something she engages in herself, without taking any blame.